1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:02,690 hello and welcome to the first far 2 00:00:06,860 --> 00:00:05,130 seminar of the academic year thank you 3 00:00:08,210 --> 00:00:06,870 all for joining us we have a very nice 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:08,220 turnout I just wanted to say a couple 5 00:00:17,450 --> 00:00:12,290 things about the car and this is a 6 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:17,460 response to graduate students postdocs 7 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:20,760 and early career astrobiologists chances 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:22,350 to talk about their research share it 9 00:00:27,170 --> 00:00:24,930 with others and get feedback as well so 10 00:00:29,710 --> 00:00:27,180 we are doing this seminar once a month 11 00:00:33,049 --> 00:00:29,720 and in order to make it 12 00:00:35,209 --> 00:00:33,059 interdisciplinary and address the areas 13 00:00:37,639 --> 00:00:35,219 of interest that this community wanted 14 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:37,649 to hear more about we put together a 15 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:39,930 whole schedule for the year and that was 16 00:00:45,709 --> 00:00:43,610 done by the science organizing committee 17 00:00:48,139 --> 00:00:45,719 interdisciplinary it covers areas that 18 00:00:51,139 --> 00:00:48,149 they felt was important to be covered 19 00:00:53,299 --> 00:00:51,149 and we have a schedule up through june 20 00:00:54,860 --> 00:00:53,309 four topics we're still lying enough 21 00:00:57,410 --> 00:00:54,870 speakers that we do have our speakers 22 00:00:59,660 --> 00:00:57,420 lined up the next month which is a 23 00:01:04,070 --> 00:00:59,670 believe november third and it's jen 24 00:01:05,750 --> 00:01:04,080 eigenberg and look up the other name but 25 00:01:09,170 --> 00:01:05,760 dumb but you can check the website for 26 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:09,180 next month and it's on extreme life so 27 00:01:13,310 --> 00:01:10,950 we hope you can join us then you're fat 28 00:01:15,710 --> 00:01:13,320 and I'm now going to turn it over to 29 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:15,720 Carl culture who will be introducing our 30 00:01:20,929 --> 00:01:18,630 speakers today Thanks well good morning 31 00:01:23,090 --> 00:01:20,939 or afternoon everybody I am really 32 00:01:25,510 --> 00:01:23,100 really glad that the far seminar has 33 00:01:28,340 --> 00:01:25,520 started up again this was something that 34 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:28,350 we had going until a couple of years ago 35 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:31,170 and then I think it fell victim to the 36 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:34,890 big budget cut we took and now I am 37 00:01:39,230 --> 00:01:37,530 really really grateful to Estelle and to 38 00:01:41,359 --> 00:01:39,240 everybody who has served on the 39 00:01:42,859 --> 00:01:41,369 organizing committee for getting it 40 00:01:44,899 --> 00:01:42,869 going again and the fact that you've got 41 00:01:48,980 --> 00:01:44,909 it laid out for most of the next year i 42 00:01:52,569 --> 00:01:48,990 think is really fabulous so giving this 43 00:01:56,090 --> 00:01:52,579 kind of both visibility and and 44 00:01:58,490 --> 00:01:56,100 opportunity to graduate students and 45 00:02:01,580 --> 00:01:58,500 young researchers i think is really part 46 00:02:03,889 --> 00:02:01,590 of what the NAI is all about so without 47 00:02:06,740 --> 00:02:03,899 further ado I will just go ahead and 48 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:06,750 introduce our two speakers this morning 49 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:08,610 the first speaker is going to be 50 00:02:13,250 --> 00:02:10,830 Catherine ish from the University of 51 00:02:15,770 --> 00:02:13,260 Arizona Catherine is 52 00:02:17,449 --> 00:02:15,780 very close to getting her PhD and she's 53 00:02:21,110 --> 00:02:17,459 been focused on the formation of 54 00:02:23,929 --> 00:02:21,120 biological molecules in liquid water 55 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:23,939 environments on places like Titan and 56 00:02:28,789 --> 00:02:25,650 what that can tell us about the origin 57 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:28,799 of life on Earth Catherine is originally 58 00:02:32,930 --> 00:02:31,260 from Canada and has a BS from the 59 00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:32,940 University of British Columbia in 60 00:02:38,869 --> 00:02:36,870 physics and astronomy our second speaker 61 00:02:40,670 --> 00:02:38,879 is going to be Billy brazelton from the 62 00:02:42,890 --> 00:02:40,680 University of Washington he's going to 63 00:02:46,460 --> 00:02:42,900 be speaking about serpentinization and 64 00:02:48,110 --> 00:02:46,470 early life Billy has a bachelor's degree 65 00:02:50,899 --> 00:02:48,120 from the University of Minnesota in 66 00:02:53,379 --> 00:02:50,909 genetics and cell biology and without 67 00:02:56,330 --> 00:02:53,389 further ado Catherine take it away 68 00:02:58,550 --> 00:02:56,340 thanks Carl I hope everyone can hear me 69 00:02:59,960 --> 00:02:58,560 in good morning to everyone on the west 70 00:03:01,879 --> 00:02:59,970 coast and good afternoon to everyone on 71 00:03:03,770 --> 00:03:01,889 the East Coast today I'm going to tell 72 00:03:08,349 --> 00:03:03,780 you a little bit about some work I've 73 00:03:11,210 --> 00:03:08,359 been doing for my PhD dissertation 74 00:03:12,979 --> 00:03:11,220 trying to figure out some of the big 75 00:03:15,229 --> 00:03:12,989 questions about the origin of life and 76 00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:15,239 and how we can use Titan to tell us 77 00:03:19,939 --> 00:03:16,769 about maybe some of the things that 78 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:19,949 happened on early Earth so I think we're 79 00:03:24,619 --> 00:03:21,690 just getting the screen up excellence 80 00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:24,629 and I'm going to do that on my own 81 00:03:33,260 --> 00:03:30,329 computer get my little pointer out okay 82 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:35,840 alright so so one of the big questions 83 00:03:41,330 --> 00:03:39,510 that we really want to ask and I guess 84 00:03:48,110 --> 00:03:41,340 I'm you guys see the next slide come up 85 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:48,120 or we're on your first slide ok I just 86 00:03:52,580 --> 00:03:51,210 moved it and I don't see it moving y'all 87 00:04:00,140 --> 00:03:52,590 know computer are you on the computer 88 00:04:10,890 --> 00:04:00,150 that's logged in as you of h I look the 89 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:12,899 sorry guys I'm we've been having some 90 00:04:18,870 --> 00:04:14,890 technical difficulties this morning and 91 00:04:22,969 --> 00:04:18,880 now my flies are advancing Oh nothin are 92 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:30,180 you obey I mean oh yeah minis different 93 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:33,550 computer now did that work which 94 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:36,720 computer tell me how your loving din I 95 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:41,590 don't know ua ua can you see it now yes 96 00:04:46,260 --> 00:04:44,770 you try to answer that now ray so so the 97 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:46,270 big questions are we are we at the big 98 00:04:57,659 --> 00:04:54,490 questions right try advancing it it's 99 00:05:01,110 --> 00:04:57,669 not going so are you using the computer 100 00:05:04,110 --> 00:05:01,120 that says you of a i was now i'm using 101 00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:04,120 the one that says you a this is you a 102 00:05:11,010 --> 00:05:08,160 okay hold on let me switch it to their 103 00:05:12,290 --> 00:05:11,020 sorry we are now on the one that says 104 00:05:15,060 --> 00:05:12,300 one of the big questions go ahead 105 00:05:17,219 --> 00:05:15,070 excellent thank you so so the question 106 00:05:19,140 --> 00:05:17,229 is how did life begin on earth and and 107 00:05:21,540 --> 00:05:19,150 so one of the first steps towards making 108 00:05:23,370 --> 00:05:21,550 life is you need to make the building 109 00:05:25,939 --> 00:05:23,380 blocks of life and there are a couple 110 00:05:30,149 --> 00:05:25,949 ways you can get building blocks of life 111 00:05:32,159 --> 00:05:30,159 either through getting it from exogenous 112 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:32,169 sources coming from comets and 113 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:34,210 meteorites or the topic i'm going to 114 00:05:39,689 --> 00:05:37,150 focus on in this talk or the Institute 115 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:39,699 process is happening in say an ocean or 116 00:05:42,570 --> 00:05:40,690 what I'm going to talk about in 117 00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:42,580 atmospheres and that's you can kind of 118 00:05:59,380 --> 00:05:49,750 see that on the left here so so one of 119 00:06:07,590 --> 00:06:02,290 I'm trying to advance the slide and it's 120 00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:10,650 try hitting one more time already I 121 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:18,480 but so so something that Stanley Miller 122 00:06:25,110 --> 00:06:20,290 did in the 50s kind of starting this 123 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:25,120 whole field of provided chemistry was to 124 00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:27,730 take an atmosphere and spark it and see 125 00:06:33,750 --> 00:06:31,360 what he could make and what he is was 126 00:06:36,030 --> 00:06:33,760 what's known as a reducing atmosphere it 127 00:06:39,420 --> 00:06:36,040 had a lot of molecules that were willing 128 00:06:41,070 --> 00:06:39,430 to give up electrons and so the topic of 129 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:41,080 this talk is sort of what can we make 130 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:43,510 what interesting simple organic 131 00:06:51,060 --> 00:06:46,510 molecules can we make from reducing 132 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:51,070 atmospheres and my slides still aren't 133 00:06:57,390 --> 00:06:55,990 avenging so that's great are you doing 134 00:07:04,550 --> 00:06:57,400 for you why don't you just say next 135 00:07:08,430 --> 00:07:04,560 slide it's slide please excellent okay 136 00:07:10,170 --> 00:07:08,440 so so we're going to talk about the 137 00:07:12,330 --> 00:07:10,180 chemistry of reducing atmospheres and 138 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:12,340 Titan is one great example of a reducing 139 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:14,710 atmosphere it's made up of methane and 140 00:07:21,170 --> 00:07:17,890 nitrogen and if it's constantly being 141 00:07:24,090 --> 00:07:21,180 bombarded by solar UV photons as well as 142 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:24,100 charged electrons coming from Saturn's 143 00:07:28,950 --> 00:07:27,790 magnetosphere and what happens is it 144 00:07:31,290 --> 00:07:28,960 breaks apart the methane and the 145 00:07:34,020 --> 00:07:31,300 nitrogen and they then recombine to make 146 00:07:37,590 --> 00:07:34,030 a whole suite of new and more complex 147 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:37,600 organic molecules known as hydrocarbons 148 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:42,310 and nitriles and hydrocarbon is just 149 00:07:45,990 --> 00:07:43,930 basically any organic molecule both 150 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:46,000 hydrogen and carbon in it and a nitrile 151 00:07:52,110 --> 00:07:48,490 is an organic molecule containing a CN 152 00:07:54,780 --> 00:07:52,120 functional group such as hydrogen 153 00:07:56,909 --> 00:07:54,790 cyanide and so just to give you a bit of 154 00:07:58,920 --> 00:07:56,919 a schematic about what is going on there 155 00:08:00,840 --> 00:07:58,930 here's a beautiful picture of Titan 156 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:00,850 taken by the Cassini spacecraft or 157 00:08:07,230 --> 00:08:04,930 they're real and and we start with 158 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:07,240 methane and nitrogen and then they are 159 00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:08,910 bombarded by you 160 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:12,060 and electrons and and then we get this 161 00:08:16,310 --> 00:08:14,130 whole great suite of organic molecules 162 00:08:17,990 --> 00:08:16,320 that we've actually observed in Titan's 163 00:08:20,570 --> 00:08:18,000 atmosphere through both the Voyager in 164 00:08:24,470 --> 00:08:20,580 the Cassini spacecraft and right at the 165 00:08:26,510 --> 00:08:24,480 bottom here in addition oh I'm back okay 166 00:08:29,570 --> 00:08:26,520 in addition to these of gaseous 167 00:08:32,570 --> 00:08:29,580 molecules we also have a big hazy 168 00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:32,580 aerosol sort of like what you see in ver 169 00:08:39,650 --> 00:08:35,400 los angeles on a really bad day you get 170 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:39,660 this haze of heavy heavy organic muck so 171 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:41,370 that's tight Titan is one example of 172 00:08:44,770 --> 00:08:42,810 this reducing atmosphere where you can 173 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:44,780 make all these simple building blocks 174 00:08:49,130 --> 00:08:47,010 the early Earth might have been another 175 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:49,140 example which is sort of how this ties 176 00:08:53,060 --> 00:08:51,330 into the origin of life there's been 177 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:53,070 some new work that suggests that the 178 00:08:56,450 --> 00:08:54,810 early Earth may have been fairly rich in 179 00:08:58,550 --> 00:08:56,460 hydrogen which is a very reducing 180 00:09:00,380 --> 00:08:58,560 molecule and such an atmosphere might 181 00:09:02,060 --> 00:09:00,390 have been able to produce valla jewels 182 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:02,070 like hydrogen cyanide which are 183 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:04,410 considered key to terrestrial prebiotic 184 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:08,250 chemistry in addition it's possible that 185 00:09:12,590 --> 00:09:10,710 the earlier person there had quite a bit 186 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:12,600 of methane in it in order to raise the 187 00:09:18,230 --> 00:09:15,900 temperature because that could be any of 188 00:09:19,610 --> 00:09:18,240 the solar system the Sun was a lot 189 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:19,620 features that the earth was a lot cooler 190 00:09:24,170 --> 00:09:21,690 and you might have needed same methane 191 00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:24,180 and carbon dioxide to increase the 192 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:26,640 temperature and if you had comfortable 193 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:28,740 amounts of methane and nitrogen you 194 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:30,450 might have formed a haze not unlike the 195 00:09:37,790 --> 00:09:33,000 one that we see on Titan today so sort 196 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:37,800 of a analog there now okay so we've made 197 00:09:42,710 --> 00:09:39,210 we're making some of the building blocks 198 00:09:44,930 --> 00:09:42,720 these simple organic molecules but make 199 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:44,940 actually making biomolecules amino acids 200 00:09:49,430 --> 00:09:47,370 to make up proteins or or the building 201 00:09:51,770 --> 00:09:49,440 blocks of DNA and RNA that's that's more 202 00:09:53,810 --> 00:09:51,780 difficult to do in an atmosphere on 203 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:53,820 Titan the problem is there's really not 204 00:09:58,100 --> 00:09:56,250 much oxygen in its atmosphere and if you 205 00:10:00,740 --> 00:09:58,110 want to make a biomolecule you really 206 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:00,750 need oxygen for most of them for example 207 00:10:05,780 --> 00:10:03,450 here's the aminoacyl I seen and you'll 208 00:10:08,780 --> 00:10:05,790 notice there's the two oxygens here in 209 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:08,790 red forming this carbonyl group on the 210 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:11,130 side here so I'm you're going to need 211 00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:13,530 oxygen to get a biomolecule and that's 212 00:10:17,570 --> 00:10:15,510 basically locking and titan's atmosphere 213 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:17,580 the early Earth there was probably quite 214 00:10:22,130 --> 00:10:19,170 a bit of oxygen in the form of carbon 215 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:22,140 monoxide carbon dioxide however if you 216 00:10:26,780 --> 00:10:24,930 try to make organic molecules out of 217 00:10:28,610 --> 00:10:26,790 such an atmosphere by sparking them in 218 00:10:31,390 --> 00:10:28,620 sort of this miller-urey experiment um 219 00:10:34,490 --> 00:10:31,400 you don't actually make very many 220 00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:34,500 prebiotic molecules Miller did some work 221 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:36,270 in 1983 where you took his original 222 00:10:41,450 --> 00:10:39,510 experiment and added co and co2 and the 223 00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:41,460 only amino acid he was able to make was 224 00:10:44,810 --> 00:10:43,320 glycine as opposed to his original 225 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:44,820 experiment done in a reducing atmosphere 226 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:49,170 which produce quite a few amino acids so 227 00:10:54,500 --> 00:10:52,410 okay we've got organic molecules we 228 00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:54,510 don't have biomolecules is there another 229 00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:57,360 way and so that when I'm proposing this 230 00:11:01,070 --> 00:10:59,040 talk is that there might be another way 231 00:11:02,690 --> 00:11:01,080 instead of making them directly in the 232 00:11:04,940 --> 00:11:02,700 atmosphere is if you may have those 233 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:04,950 organics made in the in the atmosphere 234 00:11:12,950 --> 00:11:11,250 Oh mr. can you go back one anyway so if 235 00:11:14,930 --> 00:11:12,960 you have those organics they might rain 236 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:14,940 down onto the surface and interact with 237 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:18,570 liquid water there and I tighten there 238 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:20,010 with some work done in the 80s where 239 00:11:23,810 --> 00:11:22,110 they took Titan solace these are these 240 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:23,820 haze analogues I'm going to use the word 241 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:25,530 though and throughout the talk but 242 00:11:28,940 --> 00:11:26,970 basically what i mean by that are these 243 00:11:31,220 --> 00:11:28,950 haze analogs that i'm making in the 244 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:31,230 laboratory and if you put them in water 245 00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:33,570 and hydrolyzed them hydrolysis just 246 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:35,880 refers to any reaction with a chemical 247 00:11:42,140 --> 00:11:38,190 compound in water you will produce amino 248 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:42,150 acids on the early Earth it turns out if 249 00:11:45,860 --> 00:11:43,530 you have a high enough concentration of 250 00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:45,870 hydrogen cyanide you'll make quite a few 251 00:11:59,420 --> 00:11:55,310 things that make up DNA and RNA as well 252 00:12:02,030 --> 00:11:59,430 as amino acids simply by hydrolyzing HD 253 00:12:04,329 --> 00:12:02,040 and oligomers and oligomers is just a 254 00:12:07,550 --> 00:12:04,339 connection of a lot of hydrogen cyanide 255 00:12:10,819 --> 00:12:07,560 components which I have highlighted but 256 00:12:12,740 --> 00:12:10,829 I can't get to that slide so okay I'm 257 00:12:15,139 --> 00:12:12,750 just here I'm just describing what what 258 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:15,149 i mean by something appearing for 259 00:12:20,620 --> 00:12:17,040 example adenine is a purine that makes a 260 00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:20,630 DNA and RNA cytosine a pyrimidine also 261 00:12:25,699 --> 00:12:23,519 very very important to the information 262 00:12:27,290 --> 00:12:25,709 structure of molecules and then amino 263 00:12:31,579 --> 00:12:27,300 acids like glycine the one I showed you 264 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:31,589 before so next slide and just explaining 265 00:12:37,069 --> 00:12:34,890 what and oligomers for non canvas all 266 00:12:39,710 --> 00:12:37,079 right so so I can you can see how we 267 00:12:42,319 --> 00:12:39,720 might have liquid water on on the early 268 00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:42,329 Earth there is evidence of having liquid 269 00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:43,440 water in the earlier but if you're 270 00:12:47,449 --> 00:12:44,760 familiar with Titan at all you might 271 00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:47,459 think this is crazy Titan is very cold 272 00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:50,279 it's out at 10a you so it's very far 273 00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:51,720 from the Sun a lot cooler than you'd 274 00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:54,959 find on earth and in fact its 275 00:12:57,769 --> 00:12:56,160 temperature at surface temperatures 276 00:13:00,650 --> 00:12:57,779 about 200 degrees below the freezing 277 00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:00,660 point of water so water on Titan is not 278 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:03,720 really water anymore it's ice and ice is 279 00:13:10,189 --> 00:13:07,290 a rock however just like it's unlikely 280 00:13:12,290 --> 00:13:10,199 to see a solid rock on earth flowing 281 00:13:13,639 --> 00:13:12,300 across the surface occasionally you do 282 00:13:16,009 --> 00:13:13,649 see that if you've ever been to Hawaii 283 00:13:18,350 --> 00:13:16,019 you have seen the lava there which is 284 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:18,360 liquid liquid rock flowing across the 285 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:20,910 surface and similar things can happen on 286 00:13:27,079 --> 00:13:24,510 Titan in impact melts on the left here 287 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:27,089 you see sin lap which is one of the 288 00:13:31,550 --> 00:13:29,370 craters we found on tight and on the 289 00:13:33,889 --> 00:13:31,560 right here is possibly a cryo volcanic 290 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:33,899 flow so it's possible that you can get 291 00:13:38,630 --> 00:13:35,250 liquid water for short amounts of time 292 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:38,640 in these impact melt and probable 293 00:13:44,090 --> 00:13:41,730 cannock flows and these are doing a 294 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:44,100 thermal conduction modeling we find we 295 00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,510 expect them to probably last summer 296 00:13:50,269 --> 00:13:48,000 between 100 to 10,000 years so not a lot 297 00:13:52,990 --> 00:13:50,279 of times on compared to the scale is 298 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:53,000 solar system but maybe enough time to do 299 00:13:58,590 --> 00:13:55,050 interesting chemistry and that's what 300 00:14:03,600 --> 00:13:58,600 we're investigating here in this work 301 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:03,610 so next slide so the question is given a 302 00:14:08,249 --> 00:14:05,889 freezing time scale of 100 to 10,000 303 00:14:10,319 --> 00:14:08,259 years on Titan is there enough time to 304 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:10,329 have interesting reactions between these 305 00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:12,910 tight and aerosol organics and water and 306 00:14:17,610 --> 00:14:15,190 in the end these in these transient 307 00:14:19,410 --> 00:14:17,620 liquid water environments in addition we 308 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:19,420 want to consider what these reactions 309 00:14:23,730 --> 00:14:21,130 might tell us about possible origins of 310 00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:23,740 life scenario on the earlier and one 311 00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:25,360 when good analogue might actually be the 312 00:14:29,490 --> 00:14:27,190 cold origin of life hypothesis which 313 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:29,500 I'll just mention here briefly by the 314 00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:33,490 next slide so as I touched on briefly 315 00:14:38,370 --> 00:14:36,670 earlier when life began presumably about 316 00:14:39,870 --> 00:14:38,380 four billion years ago the the son of a 317 00:14:43,290 --> 00:14:39,880 lot fainter than it is now and the earth 318 00:14:44,850 --> 00:14:43,300 was correspondingly would probably have 319 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:44,860 been cooler had the atmosphere been the 320 00:14:52,530 --> 00:14:49,690 same so it's possible that there might 321 00:14:55,050 --> 00:14:52,540 have been more ice on the earth it might 322 00:14:57,629 --> 00:14:55,060 have been cooler and so we might have 323 00:15:00,360 --> 00:14:57,639 had life starting in basically little 324 00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:00,370 half frozen ponds and this might 325 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:03,100 actually protected early life ice is 326 00:15:09,420 --> 00:15:06,730 good at protecting life from say solar 327 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:09,430 UV also perhaps the increased amount of 328 00:15:13,050 --> 00:15:10,810 impacts that would have been around at 329 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:13,060 the time of early life so if you grow 330 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:13,930 the next slide there's a little 331 00:15:19,499 --> 00:15:17,170 schematic showing how um how life might 332 00:15:22,530 --> 00:15:19,509 have started in this kind of cold origin 333 00:15:25,650 --> 00:15:22,540 life scenario under it in a small amount 334 00:15:28,769 --> 00:15:25,660 of cool water under under an ice layer 335 00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:28,779 which is checking it from from impacts 336 00:15:34,410 --> 00:15:31,720 and and see UV so we're gonna thinking 337 00:15:36,329 --> 00:15:34,420 here about how the reactions that may be 338 00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:36,339 taking place in these transient liquid 339 00:15:42,210 --> 00:15:38,470 water environments on Titan might inform 340 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:42,220 us about the origin of life on Earth so 341 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:45,370 go to the next slide so here's here's 342 00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,250 the plan we want to find out how much of 343 00:15:53,249 --> 00:15:50,560 these oxygen containing prebiotic 344 00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:53,259 biomolecules you might find in in aqua 345 00:15:58,590 --> 00:15:55,360 solutions and so number one we're going 346 00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,600 to make our organics in in a manner I'll 347 00:16:02,449 --> 00:16:00,639 describe in a minute which I'll call 348 00:16:05,340 --> 00:16:02,459 Poland's probably throughout this talk 349 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:05,350 next and then we're going to figure out 350 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:08,410 how fast these organics react with the 351 00:16:11,660 --> 00:16:10,050 organic polymers at differ 352 00:16:14,530 --> 00:16:11,670 temperatures and in different solutions 353 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:14,540 and then lastly we're going to compare 354 00:16:18,740 --> 00:16:17,250 these timescales to climb skills for 355 00:16:24,199 --> 00:16:18,750 which we imagine liquid water might be 356 00:16:26,660 --> 00:16:24,209 available on planetary surfaces so I'm 357 00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:26,670 going to study all the possible reaction 358 00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:28,740 pathways I'm going to do two studies the 359 00:16:33,079 --> 00:16:31,649 first one is just in pure water at 360 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:33,089 temperatures ranging from its freezing 361 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:35,370 point zero degrees Celsius up to you 362 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:37,110 about 40 degrees Celsius and this is 363 00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:38,970 just to get that first cut at how fast 364 00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:41,940 these reactions take place and this 365 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:43,649 applies both to tighten in the earlier I 366 00:16:47,780 --> 00:16:45,690 also want to do a separate study that 367 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:47,790 only applies to tighten because it's 368 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:50,310 very likely that any solution that we 369 00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:51,690 find on Titan would probably contain 370 00:16:58,699 --> 00:16:55,320 quite a bit of ammonia it's predicted to 371 00:17:00,440 --> 00:16:58,709 be present in say subsurface ocean not 372 00:17:03,650 --> 00:17:00,450 unlike the one that we we expect also on 373 00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:03,660 on Europa that to have a subsurface 374 00:17:07,579 --> 00:17:05,130 ocean on Titan which there is evidence 375 00:17:10,340 --> 00:17:07,589 of that we need ammonia to have that 376 00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:10,350 they're so so we're going to start first 377 00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:12,660 with the water study so just in pure 378 00:17:17,090 --> 00:17:15,720 water and so the first step as I 379 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:17,100 mentioned earlier is we want to make our 380 00:17:22,939 --> 00:17:21,329 organic molecules and so can you see it 381 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:22,949 if I if I if I move my little arrow 382 00:17:29,299 --> 00:17:26,730 around no you don't have an arrow ok let 383 00:17:31,580 --> 00:17:29,309 me get an arrow then no I'm running your 384 00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:31,590 slides um all right I don't have an 385 00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:33,990 arrow ok just all right this will be a 386 00:17:38,990 --> 00:17:35,760 thought experiment and if you see the 387 00:17:41,570 --> 00:17:39,000 young the YouTube on the left so what 388 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:41,580 happens there is that gas comes in on 389 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:43,530 the left and it flows through that 390 00:17:47,540 --> 00:17:45,090 YouTube and as its flowing through it 391 00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:47,550 sparked by the two electrodes you see 392 00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,280 there and this dissociates the gas the 393 00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,559 methane in the nitrogen and and they be 394 00:17:57,290 --> 00:17:54,480 combined to make these heavier organic 395 00:17:59,390 --> 00:17:57,300 molecules which attach on the sides of 396 00:18:02,299 --> 00:17:59,400 the YouTube which you can see labeled 397 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:02,309 there and then we we can extract it and 398 00:18:07,159 --> 00:18:04,770 it looks sort of like this brownish or 399 00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:07,169 just reddish sort of substance which you 400 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:09,809 can see on the right there so that's how 401 00:18:18,190 --> 00:18:15,940 and the next slide and so then the next 402 00:18:20,740 --> 00:18:18,200 step is that we're going to put them in 403 00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:20,750 water so on the left you see that's that 404 00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:25,280 that's our apparatus for um for making 405 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:26,600 the solans and then we dump them in 406 00:18:31,540 --> 00:18:29,570 water obviously not that water but just 407 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:31,550 that's represents water and then place 408 00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:33,770 them in a very high resolution mass 409 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:37,190 spectrometer and what's really important 410 00:18:42,790 --> 00:18:40,370 about this work and this is actually the 411 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:42,800 key to the entire work is that we have 412 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:44,210 this really high-resolution mass 413 00:18:48,850 --> 00:18:46,610 spectrometry what it allows us to do is 414 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:48,860 tell us tells us exactly what molecule 415 00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:52,490 we're looking at it's so good in fact 416 00:18:58,810 --> 00:18:54,590 that we can tell say an oxygen molecule 417 00:19:01,630 --> 00:18:58,820 RS sorry oxygen atom from say ch4 or a 418 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:01,640 nitrogen atom from CH 2 this is really 419 00:19:05,710 --> 00:19:03,170 important when we're trying to look at 420 00:19:07,780 --> 00:19:05,720 these tiny differences in mass that were 421 00:19:12,580 --> 00:19:07,790 able to have such high mass resolution 422 00:19:15,010 --> 00:19:12,590 next slide and here's an example of one 423 00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:15,020 of our our mass spectra and you can see 424 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:16,160 there's a whole bunch of different 425 00:19:22,419 --> 00:19:19,250 molecules in this spectra on the x-axis 426 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:22,429 is the mass and you see we get it so 427 00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:23,990 those little Peaks there are every mass 428 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:26,809 unit those Peaks actually if will zoom 429 00:19:30,669 --> 00:19:28,130 in in a minute and you'll see there's 430 00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:30,679 actually quite a few peeks inside of 431 00:19:37,030 --> 00:19:34,160 those big Peaks and then on the y axis 432 00:19:39,730 --> 00:19:37,040 we have intensity of the of the molecule 433 00:19:40,780 --> 00:19:39,740 that basically gives us um tells us a 434 00:19:42,790 --> 00:19:40,790 little bit about how much of that 435 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:42,800 molecule we have so we can monitor that 436 00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:44,809 over time to see if we're if that 437 00:19:50,020 --> 00:19:47,390 molecule is growing in intensity or or 438 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:50,030 decaying and I'll draw your attention to 439 00:19:53,230 --> 00:19:51,710 the peak on the very left hand side 440 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:53,240 which is labeled as an internal standard 441 00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:56,690 and so we have internal standards which 442 00:20:00,040 --> 00:19:58,490 are presumably remain constant 443 00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:00,050 throughout the run so that we can 444 00:20:04,369 --> 00:20:01,700 compare them to our other molecules to 445 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:04,379 see whether or not their decaying 446 00:20:09,090 --> 00:20:06,850 growing and if you if you're the next 447 00:20:12,930 --> 00:20:09,100 slide you'll notice that after after six 448 00:20:14,879 --> 00:20:12,940 hours at 40 degrees centigrade um our 449 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:14,889 piece of these three I'm not oxygen 450 00:20:18,479 --> 00:20:16,570 molecules I've highlighted here in the 451 00:20:20,129 --> 00:20:18,489 middle are now about the same level as 452 00:20:22,229 --> 00:20:20,139 the internal standard whereas before 453 00:20:24,239 --> 00:20:22,239 they were looked at they were higher and 454 00:20:28,499 --> 00:20:24,249 then if we go to 25 hours in the next 455 00:20:30,539 --> 00:20:28,509 slide you'll see that they've actually 456 00:20:32,009 --> 00:20:30,549 dropped so this doesn't mean that the 457 00:20:34,830 --> 00:20:32,019 internal standard is growing what it 458 00:20:36,330 --> 00:20:34,840 means is that these these organic 459 00:20:38,430 --> 00:20:36,340 molecules are decaying presumably 460 00:20:42,089 --> 00:20:38,440 they're reacting with something to 461 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:42,099 create a new a new molecule so if we go 462 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:43,570 to the next slide I'm going to zoom in 463 00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:46,210 on this one peek at 251 mass units 464 00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:47,710 interval let's zoom in and we'll see 465 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:51,340 what what's going on there see there we 466 00:20:55,919 --> 00:20:54,129 go and so we can see that we have an 467 00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:55,929 oxygenated molecule this is again at 0 468 00:21:01,919 --> 00:20:59,440 20 hours so this this initial of peak is 469 00:21:03,539 --> 00:21:01,929 probably just contamination that takes 470 00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:03,549 place when we're making the organic 471 00:21:07,619 --> 00:21:05,470 molecules unfortunately some air leaks 472 00:21:09,479 --> 00:21:07,629 in on this very oxygenated planet we 473 00:21:13,259 --> 00:21:09,489 have here but you'll notice that over 474 00:21:16,529 --> 00:21:13,269 time if we go the next slide it's 475 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:16,539 actually grown compared to the 476 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:18,369 non-oxygenated species next to it and 477 00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:22,210 then after 25 hours it it simply dwarfs 478 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:23,679 the entire spectrum the food nor the 479 00:21:29,789 --> 00:21:28,090 next slide so there we go so here here 480 00:21:31,999 --> 00:21:29,799 for example is an example of an 481 00:21:34,979 --> 00:21:32,009 oxygenated species that is growing and 482 00:21:38,399 --> 00:21:34,989 so weak and we can look at that on the 483 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:38,409 next slide at four different 484 00:21:42,299 --> 00:21:39,970 temperatures and they all show this 485 00:21:44,639 --> 00:21:42,309 beautiful what's known as a first order 486 00:21:47,549 --> 00:21:44,649 growth curve um basically you'll see the 487 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:47,559 equation up at the top top right that 488 00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:49,210 equation just comes as a result where we 489 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:51,940 assume the concentration of the molecule 490 00:21:57,899 --> 00:21:54,369 is directly proportional to the rate at 491 00:21:59,460 --> 00:21:57,909 which it's growing so we see that on 492 00:22:01,710 --> 00:21:59,470 these nice growth curves at all for 493 00:22:04,139 --> 00:22:01,720 temperatures that we looked at and 494 00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:04,149 you'll notice also that the growth 495 00:22:09,509 --> 00:22:06,940 growth rate at zero degrees Celsius is 496 00:22:11,009 --> 00:22:09,519 lower than the one at 40 degrees Celsius 497 00:22:12,899 --> 00:22:11,019 which is something else that we'd expect 498 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:12,909 we expect reactions to slow down at 499 00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:21,280 we can see that we did this from any 500 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:33,110 good anyways anyways so we did this for 501 00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:36,890 many different molecules at these four 502 00:22:39,790 --> 00:22:38,000 different temperatures and will notice 503 00:22:42,370 --> 00:22:39,800 that even at zero degrees Celsius so 504 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:42,380 that's a pretty cool solution the growth 505 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:44,810 curves had half-lives of on the order of 506 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:47,360 days so what this means is that the time 507 00:22:51,610 --> 00:22:49,610 it takes to go halfway between the 508 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:51,620 starting point and that plateau point is 509 00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,490 on the order of days so given that we 510 00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:57,440 have at least 100 years and say an 511 00:23:02,230 --> 00:22:59,120 impact melt pool or cry level and 512 00:23:03,940 --> 00:23:02,240 tighten and probably you know more than 513 00:23:05,860 --> 00:23:03,950 much more than that on the early Earth 514 00:23:08,170 --> 00:23:05,870 it seems like these reactions are 515 00:23:10,450 --> 00:23:08,180 happening very quickly with comparison 516 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:10,460 to the time scales for which water is 517 00:23:17,170 --> 00:23:14,330 available on on planetary surfaces that 518 00:23:20,020 --> 00:23:17,180 was very exciting so if we go to the 519 00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:20,030 next slide so now we're going to talk 520 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:22,070 just about a tight and specific 521 00:23:25,570 --> 00:23:24,020 experiment I did very basically 522 00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:25,580 identical to the web I just talked about 523 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:27,830 but now we did it in ammonia water which 524 00:23:32,140 --> 00:23:30,650 is relevant for for Titan so instead of 525 00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:32,150 placing them in pure water we just 526 00:23:36,730 --> 00:23:34,640 placed them in 13 weight percent ammonia 527 00:23:38,610 --> 00:23:36,740 water and what's great about this is we 528 00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:38,620 can do even lower temperatures since 529 00:23:45,130 --> 00:23:41,240 ammonia water freezes that a lot lower 530 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:45,140 temperature then on then pure water we 531 00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:47,090 could take it down to a temperatures as 532 00:23:57,010 --> 00:23:53,840 low as minus 20 degrees Celsius yeah I 533 00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:57,020 our computer to show off too so I was I 534 00:24:00,580 --> 00:23:58,730 was I was trying to indicate to somebody 535 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:00,590 agent to plug it in but I guess my my my 536 00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:05,090 name didn't work you can just questions 537 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:07,100 any other one that you have and tell me 538 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:12,890 when to go to the next slide oh um yeah 539 00:24:19,130 --> 00:24:15,130 and now I can control it myself perhaps 540 00:24:25,050 --> 00:24:19,140 get out no just tell me next slide okay 541 00:24:30,810 --> 00:24:25,060 next slide so can you see the spectrum 542 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:30,820 there now yes okay great so here's a 543 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:32,050 very similar spectrum to the one I 544 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:35,440 showed you in pure water except this was 545 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:38,770 done in an ammonia water and we're going 546 00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:40,450 to again zoom in on one of these peaks 547 00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:46,240 so next slide and then and so again here 548 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:47,830 we have a very similar spectrum to the 549 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:51,310 one I showed you before we have a tiny 550 00:24:55,740 --> 00:24:53,770 contamination of oxygen there and in a 551 00:24:59,810 --> 00:24:55,750 very big peak with without oxygen in it 552 00:25:03,440 --> 00:24:59,820 but then as time progresses next slide 553 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:03,450 the oxygenated peak again begins to grow 554 00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:06,400 next slide and after 50 hours at room 555 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:08,320 temperature it's quite a bit higher than 556 00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:10,930 every other peak at that at that same 557 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:14,470 mass so and we can again plot a growth 558 00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:16,570 curve like we did in water next slide 559 00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:21,670 and we can see that it follows the same 560 00:25:28,170 --> 00:25:24,580 same pattern as we saw with with the 561 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:28,180 water and if we go to the next slide we 562 00:25:32,010 --> 00:25:30,130 see that we did this again at this very 563 00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:32,020 lower lower temperatures as low as minus 564 00:25:36,750 --> 00:25:33,790 20 degrees centigrade where this is 565 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:36,760 still liquid and and even there it 566 00:25:42,780 --> 00:25:41,290 reacted on the order of days so so even 567 00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:42,790 in these really low temperatures in 568 00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:45,790 ammonia water the reactions are still 569 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:47,920 taking place on a very fast time scale 570 00:25:58,880 --> 00:25:53,410 so if we can go to the next slide we can 571 00:26:01,620 --> 00:25:58,890 show you oh here we know perfect that 572 00:26:06,060 --> 00:26:01,630 that this is true of all cases at all 573 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:06,070 temperatures that in ammonia water as 574 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:08,330 well as water that these reactions 575 00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:10,970 purring on timescales of days so for the 576 00:26:17,620 --> 00:26:15,980 next slide so then the next question we 577 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:17,630 would ask yourself as well how does this 578 00:26:21,070 --> 00:26:19,970 it is ammonia and better than water you 579 00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:21,080 know is tight and going to be a better 580 00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:25,120 place to say start making life in tight 581 00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:28,190 and and so we can compare we can make 582 00:26:31,659 --> 00:26:29,809 direct comparisons at two temperatures 583 00:26:33,070 --> 00:26:31,669 it's your degree Celsius and room 584 00:26:35,409 --> 00:26:33,080 temperature because we did both of those 585 00:26:38,139 --> 00:26:35,419 temperatures in both studies and we see 586 00:26:40,629 --> 00:26:38,149 here in this craft we've got great on 587 00:26:43,539 --> 00:26:40,639 the other y axis and then math on the 588 00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:43,549 x-axis and and then the blue dots 589 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:45,919 represent those rates done in ammonia 590 00:26:49,779 --> 00:26:47,570 water and the red dots represent those 591 00:26:51,009 --> 00:26:49,789 rates going and pure water and you'll 592 00:26:55,659 --> 00:26:51,019 notice just by looking at this graph 593 00:26:57,310 --> 00:26:55,669 that the ammonia water in general has 594 00:26:59,740 --> 00:26:57,320 higher rates with the same masses that 595 00:27:02,440 --> 00:26:59,750 then in water and if we do this again at 596 00:27:04,509 --> 00:27:02,450 room temperature on the next slide we'll 597 00:27:07,870 --> 00:27:04,519 see the trend has actually been even 598 00:27:09,399 --> 00:27:07,880 better at at room temperature we have 599 00:27:12,399 --> 00:27:09,409 seventy percent of these masses do not 600 00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:12,409 overlap and rate and of these ninety 601 00:27:16,509 --> 00:27:14,720 percent are higher in ammonia water so 602 00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:16,519 it seems we seem to be seeing is that 603 00:27:20,769 --> 00:27:19,460 rates are faster in ammonia water which 604 00:27:23,049 --> 00:27:20,779 is great because when you're down at 605 00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:23,059 temperatures like minus 23 7 centigrade 606 00:27:28,330 --> 00:27:25,700 you really want faster rates so if we go 607 00:27:31,330 --> 00:27:28,340 to the next slide kind of just ponder 608 00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:31,340 about why this might be the case and it 609 00:27:35,950 --> 00:27:33,830 might simply be an effective pH what 610 00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:35,960 we've done is in essence by going from 611 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:38,510 pure water to thirteen percent ammonia 612 00:27:44,019 --> 00:27:40,970 water is that we've increased the pH for 613 00:27:45,580 --> 00:27:44,029 about 7 to 11 and there was some studies 614 00:27:47,950 --> 00:27:45,590 done in the 60s where they looked at 615 00:27:50,830 --> 00:27:47,960 emmys and that's basically any organic 616 00:27:53,019 --> 00:27:50,840 group attached food and h2 which are 617 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:53,029 almost certainly a part of the organic 618 00:27:55,940 --> 00:27:53,850 compounds 619 00:27:59,539 --> 00:27:55,950 looking at and you'll notice that over 620 00:28:02,539 --> 00:27:59,549 the pagerank interest rates either seem 621 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:02,549 to rise or steak about constant so it 622 00:28:06,860 --> 00:28:04,530 could simply be due to the fact that the 623 00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:06,870 PHS increased however another more 624 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:08,640 exciting possibilities there actually 625 00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:10,770 might be new reaction pathways being 626 00:28:15,380 --> 00:28:13,039 introduced by the presence of ammonia 627 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:15,390 and this is borne out by observation 628 00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:17,490 here you can see we actually did a study 629 00:28:22,669 --> 00:28:20,100 in labeled ammonia water where the 630 00:28:26,029 --> 00:28:22,679 ammonia was labeled with nitrogen 50 and 631 00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:26,039 so you can see again we have brewing 632 00:28:31,460 --> 00:28:28,320 akshay vp you can see that the species 633 00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,470 i've highlighted on the left is growing 634 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:33,360 as we saw on every other study but then 635 00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:35,010 right next to that big pecan on the 636 00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:37,230 right there you'll see a species that 637 00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:39,120 contains absolutely no oxygen but it 638 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:42,030 does have an emotive genitive and steam 639 00:28:45,919 --> 00:28:44,130 and it too is growing so it looks like 640 00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:45,929 in addition to just having an increase 641 00:28:51,159 --> 00:28:48,720 pH we're also getting a new chemistry 642 00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:51,169 made possible by the presence of ammonia 643 00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:55,230 which we see here in this so just to 644 00:29:00,380 --> 00:28:58,530 wrap up finger the next slide the take 645 00:29:02,659 --> 00:29:00,390 home message from this this talk is that 646 00:29:04,340 --> 00:29:02,669 if you take these sort of haze particles 647 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:04,350 and we might find them Titan and perhaps 648 00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:06,090 also the early Earth and place them in 649 00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:07,710 with the water you've been very easily 650 00:29:13,340 --> 00:29:10,260 on the order of days produce oxygen 651 00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:13,350 species and so it's important this is 652 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:15,360 important to make start the steps 653 00:29:21,649 --> 00:29:17,970 towards biology by incorporating oxygen 654 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:21,659 into into these these species and so it 655 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:23,970 seems to happen quickly and easily so 656 00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:26,370 that's take-home message and I just like 657 00:29:32,419 --> 00:29:28,980 to thank my co-authors and my advisor 658 00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:32,429 dr. Lee and my funding agency and you 659 00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:42,960 all for your attention thanks in the 660 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:45,380 interest of time we're going to take 661 00:29:49,730 --> 00:29:47,850 unquestioned while I switch presenters 662 00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:49,740 over to Billy at University of 663 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:52,710 Washington so is there anyone that has a 664 00:29:56,690 --> 00:29:54,690 question they'd like to ask and we will 665 00:29:59,899 --> 00:29:56,700 go back to questions at the end of 666 00:30:00,419 --> 00:29:59,909 Billy's talk as well looks like Ames has 667 00:30:03,419 --> 00:30:00,429 raised 668 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:03,429 hand so great game array let's go to 669 00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:06,490 your site they're just the question and 670 00:30:10,139 --> 00:30:08,470 that is the specific molecules that you 671 00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:10,149 see growing are there any additional 672 00:30:16,379 --> 00:30:11,590 comments you can make about what these 673 00:30:17,940 --> 00:30:16,389 species are right that was actually one 674 00:30:19,379 --> 00:30:17,950 of the reasons we started this work was 675 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:19,389 hope was hoping to get some information 676 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:22,570 on structure about these molecules and 677 00:30:27,330 --> 00:30:24,690 so one of the things we looked at was 678 00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:27,340 looked for correlations between growing 679 00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:30,070 oxygen species and decaying non oxygen 680 00:30:33,810 --> 00:30:31,360 species because then you could perhaps 681 00:30:36,409 --> 00:30:33,820 link them to see what reaction might 682 00:30:38,430 --> 00:30:36,419 have might have made these molecules and 683 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:38,440 unfortunately there was no clear 684 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:42,610 consensus we saw some evidence of loss 685 00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:46,330 of like say of ammonia or methyl amine 686 00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:50,049 or ethyl amine which might indicate that 687 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:52,860 we had alcohols or aldehydes being made 688 00:30:59,279 --> 00:30:56,970 and and this we also did as a 689 00:31:00,960 --> 00:30:59,289 fragmentation study where you basically 690 00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:00,970 bombard the molecule and they split 691 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:02,470 apart little molecules and we did see 692 00:31:06,749 --> 00:31:04,570 evidence of both water and carbon 693 00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:06,759 monoxide coming coming off of these fret 694 00:31:11,310 --> 00:31:08,710 in these fragments so there are some of 695 00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:11,320 evidence that perhaps we're seeing sort 696 00:31:16,919 --> 00:31:15,100 of amine hydrolysis but but I wouldn't 697 00:31:18,989 --> 00:31:16,929 say the I wouldn't say it's a closed 698 00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:18,999 book III don't think I think there's a 699 00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:20,440 lot of still uncertainties about what 700 00:31:29,299 --> 00:31:22,769 exactly it is we're dealing with 701 00:31:31,289 --> 00:31:29,309 unfortunately so great thanks David 702 00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:31,299 Goddard I know you have a question if 703 00:31:35,639 --> 00:31:33,279 you can hold it till the end so we can 704 00:31:37,019 --> 00:31:35,649 make sure that billy gets this time and 705 00:31:40,499 --> 00:31:37,029 then we'll open the floor to questions 706 00:31:42,090 --> 00:31:40,509 and discussion at that point so Billy it 707 00:31:44,970 --> 00:31:42,100 looks like your slide you're working so 708 00:31:49,409 --> 00:31:44,980 go ahead take it away okay great can 709 00:31:51,930 --> 00:31:49,419 everybody hear me yeah all right thanks 710 00:31:53,460 --> 00:31:51,940 thanks a lot thanks Kathryn for getting 711 00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:53,470 people thinking about chemistry because 712 00:31:58,049 --> 00:31:55,809 I'm a biologist I'm supposed to talk 713 00:31:59,879 --> 00:31:58,059 about prebiotic chemistry the reason why 714 00:32:01,859 --> 00:31:59,889 that's relevant is because the organisms 715 00:32:04,049 --> 00:32:01,869 that I study lived in a place that's 716 00:32:06,419 --> 00:32:04,059 dominated by this chemical reaction 717 00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:06,429 Beltre Fenton ization and I'll talk a 718 00:32:10,049 --> 00:32:08,230 lot about sue pet anization in just a 719 00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:10,059 moment first I'm going to talk to be 720 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:10,880 some like the over 721 00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:12,710 all big picture astrobiological themes 722 00:32:18,010 --> 00:32:16,310 of why related to this talk so first of 723 00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:18,020 all this pent enunciation reaction 724 00:32:21,250 --> 00:32:20,000 produces lots of methane and some people 725 00:32:22,930 --> 00:32:21,260 have proposed that the methane that's 726 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:22,940 been protective atmosphere Mars might 727 00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:26,090 have been produced by this process the 728 00:32:30,670 --> 00:32:27,710 study site that I have which will 729 00:32:32,410 --> 00:32:30,680 explain in a few minutes some people 730 00:32:36,250 --> 00:32:32,420 have said might be a great place for the 731 00:32:38,530 --> 00:32:36,260 first metabolic reactions involved and 732 00:32:40,450 --> 00:32:38,540 also I study bio photos which our 733 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:40,460 community of selves and some people 734 00:32:43,630 --> 00:32:42,410 think that the first the first cell is 735 00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:43,640 not have evolved from a community of 736 00:32:46,780 --> 00:32:45,590 cells like the ones that I study so 737 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:46,790 those are just the big picture themes 738 00:32:52,060 --> 00:32:50,330 that I want you to keep your to keep 739 00:32:54,730 --> 00:32:52,070 your eye off work as I talked about the 740 00:32:57,490 --> 00:32:54,740 details of my IT suspect so this is a 741 00:32:59,860 --> 00:32:57,500 surprise ation it's the chemical 742 00:33:02,770 --> 00:32:59,870 reaction that occurs when rocks pretty 743 00:33:06,250 --> 00:33:02,780 tight rocks like all of being our come 744 00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:06,260 into contact with water and then they 745 00:33:09,970 --> 00:33:08,000 turn into the black rock called serpent 746 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:09,980 tonight and the reason why this is 747 00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:11,690 biologically important an important for 748 00:33:14,290 --> 00:33:13,070 urgent life is that when this reaction 749 00:33:17,170 --> 00:33:14,300 happens first of all it's exothermic 750 00:33:18,910 --> 00:33:17,180 which means releases lots of energy huh 751 00:33:21,130 --> 00:33:18,920 which can mean heats not drives 752 00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:21,140 hydrothermal circulation there's also 753 00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:22,640 lots of hydrogen that is produced so 754 00:33:26,650 --> 00:33:24,590 hydrogen is a great energy molecule for 755 00:33:29,170 --> 00:33:26,660 living things I'll also produces 756 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:29,180 organics but its food for biology and we 757 00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:31,610 don't know everything like all the other 758 00:33:34,660 --> 00:33:32,720 things that might happen when this 759 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:34,670 reaction occurs for example not many not 760 00:33:37,630 --> 00:33:36,050 much is known about what happens with 761 00:33:39,790 --> 00:33:37,640 nitrogen and sulfur stations trainees 762 00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,800 process but when thinking about the 763 00:33:42,430 --> 00:33:41,360 origin of life you want a chemical 764 00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:42,440 reaction that happens spontaneously 765 00:33:46,420 --> 00:33:44,510 between rocks and water the produces 766 00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:46,430 energy and food for life that's a pretty 767 00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:48,350 attractive process if you want to think 768 00:33:52,650 --> 00:33:51,350 about George applies so I study place 769 00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:52,660 called the lost city hydrothermal 770 00:33:57,540 --> 00:33:55,070 hydrothermal field it's on the 771 00:34:01,810 --> 00:33:57,550 mid-atlantic ridge although unlike most 772 00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:01,820 hydrothermal fields it is not right on 773 00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:03,320 the spreading reach it's actually 15 774 00:34:06,610 --> 00:34:05,120 kilometers away and the reason why it 775 00:34:08,919 --> 00:34:06,620 can do that is because it's not actually 776 00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:08,929 a volcano it's not primarily driven by 777 00:34:12,850 --> 00:34:10,550 magnetic heat like most type of 778 00:34:15,070 --> 00:34:12,860 Commerce's instead is driven by this 779 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:15,080 organization reaction this translation 780 00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:15,770 reaction 781 00:34:20,409 --> 00:34:17,510 in the subsurface it produces heat that 782 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:20,419 drives fluids flow in the system and 783 00:34:24,060 --> 00:34:22,250 here I often show a movie that shows you 784 00:34:26,169 --> 00:34:24,070 the fluid coming out of the chimneys and 785 00:34:27,820 --> 00:34:26,179 the vial comes that are looking on the 786 00:34:29,230 --> 00:34:27,830 chimneys the movies it's not going to 787 00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:29,240 work today but here's a picture of a 788 00:34:33,070 --> 00:34:31,040 chimney at laxity first thing you might 789 00:34:34,750 --> 00:34:33,080 notice that it's bright white that's 790 00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:34,760 because it made a carbonate minerals not 791 00:34:39,370 --> 00:34:36,550 metal sulfides like black smokers are 792 00:34:41,770 --> 00:34:39,380 the cart the chimneys at last city never 793 00:34:42,970 --> 00:34:41,780 been fluid it's much more than 100 794 00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:42,980 degrees Celsius whereas the black 795 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:45,020 smokers you see on the Discovery Channel 796 00:34:50,260 --> 00:34:47,330 and so they can get even on 350 or 400 797 00:34:52,750 --> 00:34:50,270 degrees Celsius so it's much much much 798 00:34:55,899 --> 00:34:52,760 cooler the ph is very high up to 10 or 799 00:34:59,500 --> 00:34:55,909 11 it's very high pH it's like toilet 800 00:35:00,760 --> 00:34:59,510 bowl cleaner and as I said lots of 801 00:35:02,020 --> 00:35:00,770 hydrogen and methane are coming out of 802 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:02,030 these chimneys and also there are no two 803 00:35:05,620 --> 00:35:03,770 berms there are no gigantic animals like 804 00:35:08,350 --> 00:35:05,630 you see on black smokers hardly any 805 00:35:09,790 --> 00:35:08,360 involves at all hardly new large animals 806 00:35:13,330 --> 00:35:09,800 there are lots of microscopic animals 807 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:13,340 like our tiny arthropods and gastropods 808 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:16,610 but the most obvious sign of white a 809 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:18,410 lhasa dr actually microbes because they 810 00:35:22,030 --> 00:35:20,330 form these thick snotty by outcomes that 811 00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:22,040 are covering the chimney you can't 812 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:24,800 really see in this picture but if you 813 00:35:28,660 --> 00:35:27,290 look at these chimneys they're just 814 00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:28,670 completely every single available 815 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:30,110 service areas coated with a thick stock 816 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:33,650 which is it should borrow times as i 817 00:35:37,090 --> 00:35:35,090 said lots of organics coming out of the 818 00:35:40,270 --> 00:35:37,100 commodities chimneys and urs troszke a 819 00:35:42,130 --> 00:35:40,280 colleague what soul has studied these 820 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:42,140 and here's a plot showing the 821 00:35:46,180 --> 00:35:43,730 concentration of these organics up to 822 00:35:48,190 --> 00:35:46,190 four carbon atoms per molecule and he 823 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:48,200 has a stable isotope evidence in case 824 00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:49,850 that these were actually synthesized 825 00:35:53,530 --> 00:35:51,710 abiotic ileana subsurface elasticity 826 00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:53,540 these organics are not just buy products 827 00:35:58,540 --> 00:35:56,960 apart upon in another group send some 828 00:36:00,190 --> 00:35:58,550 modeling on lost city chinese it shows 829 00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:00,200 that because they are so porous that's a 830 00:36:03,220 --> 00:36:01,910 great way to concentrate organic 831 00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:03,230 compounds that are coming out of the 832 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:05,510 fluid and put them into close proximity 833 00:36:08,590 --> 00:36:07,250 with each other it's build larger 834 00:36:10,570 --> 00:36:08,600 organic compounds that's really 835 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:10,580 important for the thinking about the 836 00:36:15,810 --> 00:36:13,690 sizing things ironically 837 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:15,820 here's some some of the details in the 838 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:17,650 chemistry of the velocity fluids as I 839 00:36:21,570 --> 00:36:20,110 said there's lots of hydrogen we let 840 00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:21,580 millions of times higher than you'd find 841 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:23,710 a normal seawater it's really a lot of 842 00:36:28,140 --> 00:36:25,210 writers you know their significant 843 00:36:30,810 --> 00:36:28,150 amount of methane as well because of the 844 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:30,820 high pH is almost no co2 available for 845 00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:32,530 microbes it's all either precipitated 846 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:34,720 out in these carbonate minerals but 847 00:36:40,350 --> 00:36:36,610 there are other simple carbon compounds 848 00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:40,360 that we don't normally think of with 849 00:36:44,180 --> 00:36:42,280 most organism for main and acetate are 850 00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,190 actually more biologically available 851 00:36:49,470 --> 00:36:46,960 than co2 I'm going to talk about this in 852 00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:49,480 defense down a bit there's a little bit 853 00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:51,310 of fixed nitrogen and I'm a former 854 00:36:56,070 --> 00:36:53,200 ammonia and nitrate really into is the 855 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:56,080 best nitrogen source so as a biologist I 856 00:36:59,220 --> 00:36:57,610 think look at this chemistry and think 857 00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:59,230 about if I were to imagine the ideal 858 00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:00,880 organism that could survive in this 859 00:37:03,420 --> 00:37:02,110 environment what I would think of is 860 00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:03,430 something that could use hydrogen energy 861 00:37:08,340 --> 00:37:05,920 source of course and something that 862 00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:08,350 could use a carbon source other than co2 863 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:11,020 select methane ch4 minor acetate and if 864 00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:13,110 it could fix nitrogen that with the idea 865 00:37:18,030 --> 00:37:16,480 so when we looked at these carbonation 866 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:18,040 he's under microscope and we extracted 867 00:37:23,010 --> 00:37:21,130 DNA what we found is that the hot the 868 00:37:24,540 --> 00:37:23,020 hottest interior most portions of the 869 00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:24,550 chimneys are completely dominated by 870 00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:28,000 this one organism that belongs matano 871 00:37:31,140 --> 00:37:29,830 source Nellie's trooper mechanic that's 872 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:31,150 interesting because the methane absorbs 873 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:34,210 Nellie's group of companions could fit 874 00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:36,130 this criteria of the ideal off city 875 00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:37,920 microbes some members of this group 876 00:37:43,410 --> 00:37:41,560 cannot utilize hydrogen and what's 877 00:37:45,180 --> 00:37:43,420 the--oh to but they can also use other 878 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:45,190 carbon compounds like acetate another 879 00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:47,650 month later come back compounds that can 880 00:37:51,810 --> 00:37:50,110 even use methane and oxidize the methane 881 00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:51,820 instead of produce it and some of them 882 00:37:55,950 --> 00:37:53,950 can fix nitrogen so no one species in 883 00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:55,960 the script can do all of these things so 884 00:37:59,580 --> 00:37:57,970 no known member could do all it could be 885 00:38:01,730 --> 00:37:59,590 the idea Luxa tea maker but perhaps this 886 00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:01,740 one at live city can do all these things 887 00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:03,910 so there are other things besides us for 888 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:05,200 my faction that live but they mostly 889 00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:06,970 live in the more oxidized cooler 890 00:38:11,130 --> 00:38:09,910 portions of the outside divisions what 891 00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:11,140 I'm going to be talking most about my 892 00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:12,790 stock is this hot too hot really 893 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:14,320 interior portion ever those 894 00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:15,850 really they're supporting group antigens 895 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:20,500 that dominates and so for one aspect my 896 00:38:24,420 --> 00:38:22,210 thesis is the test hypothesis that these 897 00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:24,430 mansions can't utilize hydrogen and I 898 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:25,990 can use a carbon compounds other than 899 00:38:30,930 --> 00:38:29,650 co2 so like a lot of organisms in these 900 00:38:33,210 --> 00:38:30,940 types of environments we can't culture 901 00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:33,220 the famous unfortunately I've tried very 902 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:35,680 hard so what I did do to try to get an 903 00:38:39,660 --> 00:38:36,730 idea of what these things are actually 904 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:39,670 doing in ecstasy for as I just took a 905 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:41,530 chunk of the carbon a chimney and 906 00:38:45,210 --> 00:38:42,850 incubated at high temperature and high 907 00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:45,220 pH and use them I stopped the label 908 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:47,350 compounds a little bit like what 909 00:38:51,330 --> 00:38:48,690 catherine was doing to see what happens 910 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:51,340 so here are two experiments on the left 911 00:38:57,060 --> 00:38:54,730 I tested whether I stoppable able to co2 912 00:38:58,500 --> 00:38:57,070 was give her to the methane and the 913 00:39:01,170 --> 00:38:58,510 second one was whether I stava cleavable 914 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:01,180 methane was converted to co2 and I also 915 00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:02,770 tested whether either of these processes 916 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:05,440 was stimulated would go faster in the 917 00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:09,610 presence of hydrogen and my God look at 918 00:39:12,030 --> 00:39:10,900 the number look at the numbers in too 919 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:12,040 much detail here but it's obvious that 920 00:39:15,450 --> 00:39:13,570 when I added hydrogen both of the 921 00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:15,460 reactions were faster which is not what 922 00:39:19,590 --> 00:39:17,080 you would expect if methane production 923 00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:19,600 and methane oxidation were competing or 924 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:21,880 were reverse reactions compared to each 925 00:39:25,290 --> 00:39:23,770 other in that case hydrogen would have 926 00:39:26,910 --> 00:39:25,300 stimulated to go in one direction but 927 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:26,920 not the other in this case both 928 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:28,510 directions of this reaction are going 929 00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:32,050 faster which is a bit surprising and 930 00:39:35,340 --> 00:39:33,160 what it must mean is that they're not 931 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:35,350 reverse reactions is that the must be 932 00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:37,570 but these methane production methane 933 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:39,520 oxidation must be two different parts 934 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:41,890 and the same overall pathway and they're 935 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:43,570 somehow links there somehow cooperate 936 00:39:49,710 --> 00:39:45,970 and we want to figure out how that's 937 00:39:51,870 --> 00:39:49,720 happening so one clue is to look at the 938 00:39:54,990 --> 00:39:51,880 thermodynamics of the chemistry Alexa T 939 00:39:56,730 --> 00:39:55,000 so as I said co2 is not a very good 940 00:39:59,520 --> 00:39:56,740 source because it's not very abundant 941 00:40:02,460 --> 00:39:59,530 and this table I listed the energies of 942 00:40:03,630 --> 00:40:02,470 reaction to be for the reactions 943 00:40:05,100 --> 00:40:03,640 associated these using these different 944 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:05,110 carbon compounds are so here's co2 945 00:40:08,850 --> 00:40:06,970 here's acetate here's formate and 946 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:08,860 methane and all these reactions are 947 00:40:12,620 --> 00:40:10,170 favorable under these 948 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:12,630 90 degrees Celsius ph10 with lots of 949 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:14,850 hydrogen methane around but the amount 950 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:16,410 of energy you get from each of these 951 00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:18,930 reactions given how much of that 952 00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:20,550 substrate is coming out of the chimney 953 00:40:25,310 --> 00:40:23,760 per unit of time is very different co2 954 00:40:27,980 --> 00:40:25,320 would take you five hundred thousand 955 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:27,990 years to get them out of biomass we stay 956 00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:29,850 at lost city if you only use you to aid 957 00:40:33,980 --> 00:40:32,310 your carbon source so let's not break it 958 00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:33,990 whereas if you use acetate for made of 959 00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,280 methane you could do it never a small 960 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:37,760 amount so clearly they must be using 961 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:40,410 just using the chemistry they must be 962 00:40:46,820 --> 00:40:44,010 using acetate or four mainstays so we 963 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:46,830 have a little bit of metagenomic DNA 964 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:48,330 sequencing data in these locks at each 965 00:40:53,660 --> 00:40:50,730 other and one of the things we found is 966 00:40:55,250 --> 00:40:53,670 a gene that encodes the enzyme a silicon 967 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:55,260 that a synthesis of gene that is only 968 00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:56,910 found in organisms that directly use 969 00:41:00,860 --> 00:40:58,980 acetate from the environment and the 970 00:41:02,930 --> 00:41:00,870 closest relative of the version that we 971 00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:02,940 found a Lodge city are genes that 972 00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:04,830 belongs to acetate using the manager 973 00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:07,680 Mike Matheny so this is really support 974 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:09,180 of our process that these things are 975 00:41:15,980 --> 00:41:13,440 using acetates as you do at least they 976 00:41:18,290 --> 00:41:15,990 are able to but this is confusing 977 00:41:19,970 --> 00:41:18,300 because of we don't know what you have 978 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:19,980 any methanogens that i know of any way 979 00:41:24,380 --> 00:41:22,290 that can use both hydrogen and acetate 980 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:24,390 usually if you have acetate that use it 981 00:41:27,260 --> 00:41:25,770 if you have hydrogen then use that be 982 00:41:29,180 --> 00:41:27,270 there are no matta engines that I know 983 00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:29,190 if it is both looking same time but a 984 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:30,480 las cydia be really great if you could 985 00:41:34,220 --> 00:41:32,250 use book because you'd be crazy not to 986 00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:34,230 use a lot hydrogen acetate significant 987 00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:35,640 carbon source it's not just not suited 988 00:41:40,850 --> 00:41:37,680 to see here i will have a diagram of how 989 00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:40,860 that might work and um when I thinking 990 00:41:44,780 --> 00:41:42,900 is that when organisms use access date 991 00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:44,790 or methane as well and convert it into 992 00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:46,260 biomass there's a little bit of co2 993 00:41:49,550 --> 00:41:48,270 leagues out I'm gonna see the two that 994 00:41:52,370 --> 00:41:49,560 leaks out of that might be actually 995 00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:52,380 better source of carbon dioxide I'm just 996 00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:55,110 getting it from a clue to perhaps some 997 00:41:59,210 --> 00:41:56,880 of that co2 is derived from acetate and 998 00:42:02,450 --> 00:41:59,220 then passed over to rap with hydrogen to 999 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:02,460 make methane and that's part of energy 1000 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:03,250 conservation 1001 00:42:07,230 --> 00:42:05,530 so in that way you'd actually be the 1002 00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:07,240 fuse methane must've acetate you being 1003 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:08,980 oxidizing my thing and making my thing 1004 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:11,410 and getting ATP and making bio matches 1005 00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:14,050 so this is the hypothesis of excess and 1006 00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:15,460 not anywhere close to the proving us 1007 00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:17,260 what's going on but that's what I'm 1008 00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:18,910 thinking to work I think this has 1009 00:42:22,530 --> 00:42:20,590 implications for version of life studies 1010 00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:22,540 because some people think that the selah 1011 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:26,110 kawai pathway this pathway that tangents 1012 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:28,090 currently used to fix carbon dioxide 1013 00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:30,330 into biomass might have been the first 1014 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:32,710 carbon fixation pathway and if it did 1015 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:35,170 it'd probably evolved in an environment 1016 00:42:39,090 --> 00:42:37,570 with lots of high-capacity means it's a 1017 00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:39,100 lot easier to make acetate in diverse 1018 00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:40,480 fields away which is the first molecule 1019 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:42,310 mostly live playback way that is the mix 1020 00:42:46,650 --> 00:42:45,370 co2 and if you're living in just look 1021 00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:46,660 away back way bald in a high pitch 1022 00:42:50,310 --> 00:42:48,910 environment that perhaps dominated by 1023 00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:50,320 surprise ation that the obviously 1024 00:42:54,060 --> 00:42:51,760 acetate would be the one you use not 1025 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:54,070 coming outside so it's one of the one or 1026 00:42:57,570 --> 00:42:55,330 more about this i highly recommend this 1027 00:42:59,040 --> 00:42:57,580 review the reason that came out and 1028 00:43:02,640 --> 00:42:59,050 nature reviews and microbiology which 1029 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:02,650 talks a lot about that idea so in our 1030 00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:04,570 metagenomic data we also have some 1031 00:43:10,770 --> 00:43:07,630 insight into the nitrogen cycle we found 1032 00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:10,780 operon for encoding for genes involved 1033 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:12,400 in nitrogen fixation so i mentioned 1034 00:43:15,390 --> 00:43:14,050 earlier one of my hypothesis that this 1035 00:43:16,410 --> 00:43:15,400 ideal micro would be able to fix 1036 00:43:19,590 --> 00:43:16,420 nitrogen because there's so little 1037 00:43:21,180 --> 00:43:19,600 ammonium nitrate around so here's four 1038 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:21,190 genes that are responsible for that and 1039 00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:22,450 if you look at the diversity of one of 1040 00:43:26,100 --> 00:43:24,640 these communes this niche gene and the 1041 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:26,110 different offset chimneys you see that 1042 00:43:32,070 --> 00:43:27,250 there are several different versions of 1043 00:43:33,570 --> 00:43:32,080 this in fh you more than that slightly 1044 00:43:35,970 --> 00:43:33,580 different hydrothermal chimneys have 1045 00:43:37,380 --> 00:43:35,980 different h genes so that shows there's 1046 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:37,390 quite a bit of diversity in this 1047 00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:39,850 nitrogen cycle you look at the nitrogen 1048 00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:41,620 kings much more diversity then you see 1049 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:43,020 if you just look at the 60s 1050 00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:45,050 was Amon RA which is usually that 1051 00:43:50,750 --> 00:43:48,230 barcode that microbiologists used sucks 1052 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:50,760 species diversity so looks like there's 1053 00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:52,170 just one myth antigen that's living in 1054 00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:53,400 these chimneys but this one methanogens 1055 00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:55,230 accounting for lots of different if a 1056 00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:56,700 stinks lots of different James involve 1057 00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:58,560 the nitrogen fixation that's kind of 1058 00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:01,920 confusing and one possible explanation 1059 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:03,720 is that there's a lot of horizontal 1060 00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,090 transfer going on between slightly 1061 00:44:10,610 --> 00:44:08,880 different subspecies with them as one 1062 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:10,620 imagine species and we also have some 1063 00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:12,330 evidence for that looking at our 1064 00:44:17,060 --> 00:44:14,040 metagenomic data where we find lots of 1065 00:44:19,850 --> 00:44:17,070 different transposing which are enzymes 1066 00:44:21,890 --> 00:44:19,860 that are involved in moving DNA around 1067 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:21,900 within a genome or between you nuts 1068 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:26,130 here's a pot of the size of an assembled 1069 00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:28,050 DNA fragment in our genomic studies and 1070 00:44:32,180 --> 00:44:30,270 the read depth or coverage which is a 1071 00:44:33,950 --> 00:44:32,190 measure of how well basically how many 1072 00:44:35,810 --> 00:44:33,960 times that particular DNA signatures 1073 00:44:38,210 --> 00:44:35,820 found and whole data set you see this 1074 00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,220 peak of highly abundant but very small 1075 00:44:43,630 --> 00:44:40,560 DNA fragments and almost all of them 1076 00:44:46,670 --> 00:44:43,640 contain these transpose aces so this is 1077 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:46,680 indicating a lot of plasmids or viruses 1078 00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:49,050 in these biofilms what we want to know 1079 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:50,940 is what they're doing they might be 1080 00:44:54,380 --> 00:44:52,770 involved in moving these nitrogen 1081 00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:54,390 fixation genes which are known to be 1082 00:44:58,850 --> 00:44:56,460 often horizontal transfer between cells 1083 00:45:00,560 --> 00:44:58,860 and actually creating more diversity 1084 00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:00,570 more metabolic diversity from this 1085 00:45:05,780 --> 00:45:02,310 biofilm than we see by just looking at 1086 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:05,790 the typical barcode 16s ribosomal RNA 1087 00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:08,970 diversity let's know it's a little bit 1088 00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:12,480 about 50 films as a strobe I illogical 1089 00:45:16,430 --> 00:45:14,430 study company so biofilms are social 1090 00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:16,440 communities and some people have said 1091 00:45:20,810 --> 00:45:17,790 that biofilms are multi cellular 1092 00:45:23,090 --> 00:45:20,820 microbes and there's a modeling paper 1093 00:45:25,100 --> 00:45:23,100 that recently came out in pinas which 1094 00:45:27,350 --> 00:45:25,110 shows that if you horizontal transfer of 1095 00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:27,360 DNA of genes within these biofilms can 1096 00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:28,910 actually introduce and stabilize the 1097 00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:31,140 existence of multiple genotypes of them 1098 00:45:35,390 --> 00:45:34,200 that bio from the reason why that's 1099 00:45:38,780 --> 00:45:35,400 interesting is this is known that lots 1100 00:45:40,670 --> 00:45:38,790 of cells between within biofilms can 1101 00:45:42,980 --> 00:45:40,680 actually differentiate without really 1102 00:45:45,260 --> 00:45:42,990 changing their genotype but can change 1103 00:45:46,690 --> 00:45:45,270 their phenotype to fill specific rules 1104 00:45:50,170 --> 00:45:46,700 within that biofilm eternity 1105 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:50,180 overall both of the biofilm this is an 1106 00:45:54,970 --> 00:45:52,250 example basically microbes cooperating 1107 00:45:56,410 --> 00:45:54,980 to fulfill different functions in order 1108 00:45:59,050 --> 00:45:56,420 to have the overall multi-cellular 1109 00:46:03,450 --> 00:45:59,060 entity have bit more evolutionary 1110 00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:03,460 fitness and that's a very interesting 1111 00:46:08,710 --> 00:46:05,540 thing for thinking about evolution and 1112 00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:08,720 particularly thinking about perhaps had 1113 00:46:13,089 --> 00:46:11,270 the very first of all there's this idea 1114 00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:13,099 of the predominant community of pre 1115 00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:14,720 cells which is an idea that the very 1116 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:16,640 first cells evolved from primitive cell 1117 00:46:21,609 --> 00:46:18,650 like things and very few genes each cell 1118 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:21,619 had very few genes and therefore their 1119 00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:22,970 metabolically dependent on each other 1120 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:24,710 and they compensated by this very small 1121 00:46:28,750 --> 00:46:26,450 genes by transferring genes among each 1122 00:46:31,060 --> 00:46:28,760 other wrinkly not really caring who it 1123 00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:31,070 came from where it was going to and as 1124 00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:35,839 this community evolved um the cells as 1125 00:46:39,819 --> 00:46:38,270 we know them became less can be more 1126 00:46:41,710 --> 00:46:39,829 resistant to horizontal transfer and 1127 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:41,720 became the cells Lena and so I'm 1128 00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:44,210 thinking that studying biofilms like the 1129 00:46:47,290 --> 00:46:45,500 one at laughs today that have lots of 1130 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:47,300 worlds on transfer going on but I've 1131 00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:48,890 limited genomic diversity but somehow 1132 00:46:52,690 --> 00:46:50,900 more have more about a bolic diversity 1133 00:46:53,980 --> 00:46:52,700 possibly as a result to the sorrel 1134 00:46:55,210 --> 00:46:53,990 entrance there might be a great way to 1135 00:46:57,250 --> 00:46:55,220 studying the dynamics of this 1136 00:47:02,319 --> 00:46:57,260 hypothetical free Darwinian community 1137 00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:02,329 pieces so you I've been saying that 1138 00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:04,550 there's if you look at this typical 16s 1139 00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:06,319 ribosomal RNA barcode that you really 1140 00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:08,030 only see one species in the Phantom's 1141 00:47:13,089 --> 00:47:10,190 and that's true with most techniques 1142 00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:13,099 that only we're now understand only 1143 00:47:17,890 --> 00:47:15,440 scratching the surface of what the most 1144 00:47:19,690 --> 00:47:17,900 abundant microbes are they recently we 1145 00:47:21,609 --> 00:47:19,700 have been able to get this very next 1146 00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:21,619 data set from international scent of 1147 00:47:25,180 --> 00:47:23,089 submarine microbes which is using this 1148 00:47:27,099 --> 00:47:25,190 new sequencing technology that can 1149 00:47:29,740 --> 00:47:27,109 actually sample the environment and much 1150 00:47:31,870 --> 00:47:29,750 much greater detail what is much higher 1151 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:31,880 detective detection sensitivity than 1152 00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:34,250 we've had before and I can select very 1153 00:47:41,290 --> 00:47:37,760 very rare organisms-- so here's a figure 1154 00:47:45,150 --> 00:47:41,300 from one of our samples of a sequence of 1155 00:47:48,539 --> 00:47:45,160 this technology we got 20,000 1156 00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:48,549 using reads so 20,000 DNA sequences that 1157 00:47:52,170 --> 00:47:50,470 came from this one sample eighty-five 1158 00:47:53,970 --> 00:47:52,180 percent of the 20,000 have the exact 1159 00:47:55,620 --> 00:47:53,980 same DNA sequence the corresponds to 1160 00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:55,630 this myth an engine that dominates the 1161 00:47:59,910 --> 00:47:58,000 Biafran but the remaining fifteen 1162 00:48:02,760 --> 00:47:59,920 percent represented 87 additional 1163 00:48:08,130 --> 00:48:02,770 species or operational taxonomic unix so 1164 00:48:10,380 --> 00:48:08,140 to use which is the microbiologist can't 1165 00:48:12,690 --> 00:48:10,390 see we have same species and if you look 1166 00:48:15,809 --> 00:48:12,700 at how many of these rare species were 1167 00:48:17,819 --> 00:48:15,819 detected with increased sampling depth 1168 00:48:19,620 --> 00:48:17,829 which is what this curve is shown is 1169 00:48:22,410 --> 00:48:19,630 that you found eight found 88 species 1170 00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:22,420 after sequencing almost 20,000 DNA 1171 00:48:26,370 --> 00:48:24,400 sequences but that curve isn't anywhere 1172 00:48:27,900 --> 00:48:26,380 close to level enough so if we had a 1173 00:48:30,539 --> 00:48:27,910 technology that could sequence even more 1174 00:48:32,010 --> 00:48:30,549 than 20,000 pink 20,000 DNA sequences 1175 00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:32,020 from the environment we could find even 1176 00:48:39,089 --> 00:48:36,280 more speeches and so this is the 1177 00:48:40,529 --> 00:48:39,099 bringing up the idea of the rare 1178 00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:40,539 biosphere that you might have heard 1179 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:42,430 about before and we see that even in 1180 00:48:46,109 --> 00:48:44,170 this an ecosystem where there's really 1181 00:48:47,339 --> 00:48:46,119 just one species at least we thought 1182 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:47,349 there was just one species of the 1183 00:48:52,829 --> 00:48:48,970 previous technology there's a verb 1184 00:48:55,079 --> 00:48:52,839 biosphere within as a background to that 1185 00:48:57,839 --> 00:48:55,089 major species and on this particular 1186 00:49:00,059 --> 00:48:57,849 case all these most of these 87 1187 00:49:02,579 --> 00:49:00,069 additional species are very very closely 1188 00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:02,589 related to this dominant species and so 1189 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:04,180 we don't quite know what that means but 1190 00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:05,770 we wondering if that might be a 1191 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:08,049 reflection of this metabolic diversity 1192 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:09,730 that we're seeing intelligence and right 1193 00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:10,930 now we're trying to figure out how to 1194 00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:12,640 correlate this metabolic diversity I'm 1195 00:49:18,450 --> 00:49:16,000 aware or 16 s diversity so I've been 1196 00:49:19,890 --> 00:49:18,460 talking sort of abstractly about these 1197 00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:19,900 things but here's a picture of what this 1198 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:21,369 biofilms look like this is a 1199 00:49:24,510 --> 00:49:22,930 transmission electron micrograph you've 1200 00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:24,520 got your steel bar here it's one micron 1201 00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:26,710 basically each one of these cells is 1202 00:49:32,460 --> 00:49:30,730 approximately 1 micron wide this grey 1203 00:49:33,779 --> 00:49:32,470 part and the white part here that's the 1204 00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,789 carbonate mineral so you see the 1205 00:49:37,890 --> 00:49:35,440 biofilms have directly attached to the 1206 00:49:39,450 --> 00:49:37,900 carbonate minerals and these cells over 1207 00:49:41,849 --> 00:49:39,460 here have this very characteristic 1208 00:49:44,670 --> 00:49:41,859 morphology of the cells in this methanol 1209 00:49:46,380 --> 00:49:44,680 search snail engine hack very 1210 00:49:48,290 --> 00:49:46,390 characteristic but there's lots of other 1211 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:48,300 morphology is here too that we were not 1212 00:49:51,530 --> 00:49:49,410 to see if we don't really know what 1213 00:49:54,170 --> 00:49:51,540 those things correspond to you know 1214 00:49:55,820 --> 00:49:54,180 based on those 16s sequences at least 1215 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:55,830 eighty five percent question more the 1216 00:49:58,610 --> 00:49:57,330 install should be the exact same thing 1217 00:50:01,580 --> 00:49:58,620 that's not what we're really what we're 1218 00:50:03,470 --> 00:50:01,590 seeing here this might be an example of 1219 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:03,480 how cells within a biofilm can 1220 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:07,050 differentiate the form fill various 1221 00:50:12,860 --> 00:50:08,850 roles even if they have the same 1222 00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:12,870 phenotype and that's as I said before 1223 00:50:16,460 --> 00:50:15,270 that's hypothesized to be what might 1224 00:50:20,690 --> 00:50:16,470 have happened in these very first 1225 00:50:23,410 --> 00:50:20,700 community pieces so I'm just summarizing 1226 00:50:25,460 --> 00:50:23,420 ourselves here to reiterate the 1227 00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:25,470 chemistry of the lost city flutes 1228 00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:27,000 because they're Sopranos ation is very 1229 00:50:31,060 --> 00:50:28,800 high pH fairly warm about hundred 1230 00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:31,070 degrees lots of hydrogen and mechanics 1231 00:50:37,730 --> 00:50:33,780 we found both methane production and 1232 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:37,740 methane oxidation are being mediated by 1233 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:39,570 microbes and they're stimulated by 1234 00:50:43,550 --> 00:50:41,970 hydrogen we have as many gnomic data 1235 00:50:45,380 --> 00:50:43,560 shows that they have the genetic 1236 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:45,390 potential to use carbon compounds other 1237 00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:47,850 than carbon dioxide lots of horizontal 1238 00:50:51,710 --> 00:50:49,440 gene transfer that has the potential to 1239 00:50:54,590 --> 00:50:51,720 be going on the phylogenetic diversity 1240 00:50:56,210 --> 00:50:54,600 this was a rare biosphere as evidenced 1241 00:50:57,620 --> 00:50:56,220 by sickness sequences but there's also 1242 00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:57,630 lots of diversity of nitrogen fixation 1243 00:51:01,970 --> 00:51:00,420 jeans and you see this great 1244 00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:01,980 morphological diversity despite limited 1245 00:51:06,170 --> 00:51:04,800 genetic diversity all right here's my 1246 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:06,180 last slide I'm just throwing out some 1247 00:51:12,770 --> 00:51:09,090 ideas about how all this is Astra 1248 00:51:15,410 --> 00:51:12,780 biologically relevant for example um if 1249 00:51:17,450 --> 00:51:15,420 these cells have differentiated and 1250 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:17,460 specific niches are they engaging us in 1251 00:51:20,170 --> 00:51:18,810 traffic partnership or some of those 1252 00:51:22,310 --> 00:51:20,180 cells that we saw on that picture 1253 00:51:23,780 --> 00:51:22,320 undergoing methane production some of 1254 00:51:25,070 --> 00:51:23,790 them doing methane oxidation and they're 1255 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:25,080 somehow cooperating with each other 1256 00:51:30,050 --> 00:51:27,570 passing along metabolites which might be 1257 00:51:31,730 --> 00:51:30,060 much a great thing to do in a biofilm 1258 00:51:33,890 --> 00:51:31,740 because inhibits diffusion away from 1259 00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:33,900 things so for example you've got co2 1260 00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:35,040 from the acetate instead of 1261 00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:36,270 precipitating out immediately the 1262 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:38,310 biofilm might make that carbon dioxide 1263 00:51:42,530 --> 00:51:40,170 aqueous dissolved for longer period of 1264 00:51:45,860 --> 00:51:42,540 time than it would it had been outside 1265 00:51:47,210 --> 00:51:45,870 the bathroom and then if these centric 1266 00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,220 metabolic relationships were happening 1267 00:51:51,020 --> 00:51:48,960 in a very early biofilm early 1268 00:51:52,579 --> 00:51:51,030 perhaps that might have contributed the 1269 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:52,589 disability of biochemistry that with me 1270 00:51:57,740 --> 00:51:55,890 today speculation as far as like 1271 00:51:59,420 --> 00:51:57,750 stressed your life I think it's a 1272 00:52:00,980 --> 00:51:59,430 question asked could you have an 1273 00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:00,990 organism living entirely office 1274 00:52:04,130 --> 00:52:02,160 organization I think that might be 1275 00:52:06,260 --> 00:52:04,140 happening at LA City but because there's 1276 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:06,270 so much oxygenated sea water circulating 1277 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:07,970 around it's kind of hard to tell a study 1278 00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:10,170 and also this the methane on Mars has 1279 00:52:13,550 --> 00:52:11,940 been pretty spicy but incision I think 1280 00:52:14,810 --> 00:52:13,560 we got a look in the sub service to see 1281 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:14,820 if they're biofilms like they say it 1282 00:52:26,349 --> 00:52:16,530 laughs it is directly living off thats 1283 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:30,800 thank you Billy all right well I want to 1284 00:52:36,410 --> 00:52:33,450 turn questions over to headquarters and 1285 00:52:38,270 --> 00:52:36,420 thank Max burn sign my canoe and Mary 1286 00:52:45,140 --> 00:52:38,280 wojtek for joining us I believe there's 1287 00:52:53,370 --> 00:52:50,190 and you might be muted oh my hairy yeah 1288 00:52:59,960 --> 00:52:53,380 go ahead a question about what you knew 1289 00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,530 can you repeat the question we're okay 1290 00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:06,640 my question was for Billy and I was 1291 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:08,710 wondering if he wanted to comment on if 1292 00:53:13,620 --> 00:53:10,570 art be heading information about sulfate 1293 00:53:15,570 --> 00:53:13,630 reduction either from his metagenomic or 1294 00:53:20,340 --> 00:53:15,580 any direct measurements at the velocity 1295 00:53:22,830 --> 00:53:20,350 sites we've been looking at the question 1296 00:53:24,660 --> 00:53:22,840 it's a very confusing topic and the 1297 00:53:26,850 --> 00:53:24,670 metagenomic data that we did find one 1298 00:53:28,740 --> 00:53:26,860 gene this via sarging that's evolving 1299 00:53:30,750 --> 00:53:28,750 sulfate reduction but it's not involved 1300 00:53:32,610 --> 00:53:30,760 it it belongs to a firm acute it does 1301 00:53:34,140 --> 00:53:32,620 not belong to the typical bacteria that 1302 00:53:36,450 --> 00:53:34,150 are involved in an hour with methane 1303 00:53:37,890 --> 00:53:36,460 oxidation in fact we don't find any of 1304 00:53:39,780 --> 00:53:37,900 the typical bacteria that are found 1305 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:39,790 associated in a repentant oxidation so 1306 00:53:46,650 --> 00:53:40,690 we're still trying to figure that out 1307 00:53:52,020 --> 00:53:49,470 I just wondering if you thought it might 1308 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:52,030 be involved when you proposed in trophic 1309 00:53:55,620 --> 00:53:54,370 partnerships and that could have been a 1310 00:53:58,140 --> 00:53:55,630 more traditional type of 1311 00:54:01,110 --> 00:53:58,150 sulfate-reducing that's involved in this 1312 00:54:03,570 --> 00:54:01,120 imperfect relationship facilitated by 1313 00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:03,580 the supply of hydrogen with an advantage 1314 00:54:09,150 --> 00:54:07,270 in yeah I think sulfate reduction could 1315 00:54:10,860 --> 00:54:09,160 definitely be involved in this possible 1316 00:54:13,140 --> 00:54:10,870 some terrific relationship but it's not 1317 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:13,150 involving one of the bacterial species 1318 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:14,290 that have been found in other 1319 00:54:19,470 --> 00:54:15,850 environments it has to be a different 1320 00:54:21,060 --> 00:54:19,480 bacteria if it's involved and when 1321 00:54:22,590 --> 00:54:21,070 looking at the bacteria that are there 1322 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:22,600 it's hard to imagine one of these 1323 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:24,370 bacteria living at 80 degrees or 90 1324 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:26,890 degrees Celsius and a page time but 1325 00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:33,610 maybe it's happening okay thanks okay 1326 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:35,680 Goddard Space Flight Center you have a 1327 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:39,730 question yeah let's see actually two 1328 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:42,810 more questions 12 comma can you hear me 1329 00:54:49,830 --> 00:54:46,810 are you okay one of the comment to Billy 1330 00:54:51,630 --> 00:54:49,840 and that is that our team has just 1331 00:54:54,810 --> 00:54:51,640 submitted two papers which are now 1332 00:54:59,480 --> 00:54:54,820 currently under review regarding methane 1333 00:55:02,870 --> 00:54:59,490 on Mars and the second one reports 1334 00:55:06,690 --> 00:55:02,880 detection of significant plumes over two 1335 00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:06,700 regions of interest to your talk one is 1336 00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:09,550 over the southeast quadrant of a low 1337 00:55:16,260 --> 00:55:12,910 shield volcano and that quadrant shows 1338 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:16,270 evidence of local collapse which 1339 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:18,130 suggests that the surface is connected 1340 00:55:25,140 --> 00:55:20,170 through fissures at least seasonally as 1341 00:55:27,030 --> 00:55:25,150 ice clears to some surface zones that we 1342 00:55:28,530 --> 00:55:27,040 can't say whether serpenton ization is 1343 00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:28,540 still occurring there or not it's 1344 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:30,370 interesting to consider your remarks 1345 00:55:35,850 --> 00:55:32,490 regarding biofilms in that connection 1346 00:55:39,390 --> 00:55:35,860 which would become a prime region for 1347 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:39,400 landed missions to further explore the 1348 00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:41,650 effluent gases and they're like oh topic 1349 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:45,760 ratios you have any further comments on 1350 00:55:51,870 --> 00:55:49,410 what kinds of signatures might be sought 1351 00:55:55,620 --> 00:55:51,880 in such regions 1352 00:55:57,779 --> 00:55:55,630 to differentiate the suggestion you made 1353 00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:57,789 Samantha nization plus biofilm 1354 00:56:06,299 --> 00:56:01,359 generation from other means of producing 1355 00:56:09,329 --> 00:56:06,309 methane yeah I think would be extremely 1356 00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:09,339 difficult if you look at the isotopic 1357 00:56:12,749 --> 00:56:11,170 signatures of hydrogen and methane at LA 1358 00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:12,759 City I brought up a slight ear and if 1359 00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,609 anyone everyone can see it but other 1360 00:56:19,049 --> 00:56:17,680 authors have have used this figure to 1361 00:56:21,210 --> 00:56:19,059 show you how you can differentiate 1362 00:56:22,499 --> 00:56:21,220 between biogenic and a biogenic methane 1363 00:56:25,529 --> 00:56:22,509 if you looked at the methane elasticity 1364 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:25,539 it has a puree of biogenic signal and i 1365 00:56:29,700 --> 00:56:27,970 could be because but they be produced by 1366 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:29,710 the biofilms is very small compared to 1367 00:56:34,249 --> 00:56:31,210 the methane being produced diabolically 1368 00:56:36,299 --> 00:56:34,259 or because the ice topic fractionation 1369 00:56:37,859 --> 00:56:36,309 associated with by phones is extremely 1370 00:56:39,779 --> 00:56:37,869 small to the very high temperature it's 1371 00:56:41,940 --> 00:56:39,789 not a very high temperature reduces 1372 00:56:44,039 --> 00:56:41,950 fractionation or also because the 1373 00:56:45,870 --> 00:56:44,049 biofilms are using substrates that are 1374 00:56:47,819 --> 00:56:45,880 also that are coming from the state 1375 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:47,829 biogenic source they're not fractionated 1376 00:56:52,049 --> 00:56:50,410 very much that for you see so I some I 1377 00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:52,059 guess my comment would be to be careful 1378 00:56:56,759 --> 00:56:55,119 to be disappointed if we saw such a 1379 00:56:58,200 --> 00:56:56,769 signature at Mars because that this 1380 00:57:00,599 --> 00:56:58,210 mature velocity and there's lots of 1381 00:57:02,190 --> 00:57:00,609 biofilms there so as a biologist would 1382 00:57:05,390 --> 00:57:02,200 i'd like to see us in microscope images 1383 00:57:07,799 --> 00:57:05,400 at first but i would suggest a sulfur 1384 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:07,809 like maybe sulfur isotopes might be a 1385 00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:13,690 better way well did you probably know 1386 00:57:19,019 --> 00:57:16,089 Barbara Sherwood Lollar particularly 1387 00:57:21,390 --> 00:57:19,029 from the uptight team has taken the lead 1388 00:57:23,609 --> 00:57:21,400 in showing that it's not sufficient to 1389 00:57:28,799 --> 00:57:23,619 look forward to fractionation of carbon 1390 00:57:31,529 --> 00:57:28,809 13 in samples produced from to decide 1391 00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:31,539 whether biogenic or not but rather that 1392 00:57:37,349 --> 00:57:34,329 plus looking for a hydrogen 1393 00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:37,359 fractionation form of deuterium is far 1394 00:57:43,620 --> 00:57:39,670 more diagnostic has that been done in 1395 00:57:45,799 --> 00:57:43,630 the case of lost city europe Rostovski 1396 00:57:48,839 --> 00:57:45,809 what's all is done hydrogen isotopes 1397 00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:48,849 exactly as in some of the chimneys a 1398 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:51,359 lost city show evidence of hydrogen 1399 00:57:56,790 --> 00:57:55,210 utilization but however the main gym 1400 00:57:58,859 --> 00:57:56,800 most of state does not really show much 1401 00:58:00,480 --> 00:57:58,869 energy utilization which we don't 1402 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:00,490 understand why that is but there's lots 1403 00:58:06,359 --> 00:58:04,930 of fun yeah I mean we definitely want to 1404 00:58:08,370 --> 00:58:06,369 measure those gases but we should be 1405 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:08,380 careful too disappointed if they don't 1406 00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:12,010 show an obvious biological signal ok 1407 00:58:16,829 --> 00:58:14,770 I'll have another question for Catherine 1408 00:58:19,770 --> 00:58:16,839 but perhaps we should let this yeah 1409 00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:19,780 we're on the hour right now so if people 1410 00:58:24,839 --> 00:58:22,210 need to get going i'll let you do that 1411 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:24,849 and and i just want to thank everyone 1412 00:58:30,570 --> 00:58:28,210 for joining Michael will come back to 1413 00:58:33,500 --> 00:58:30,580 you but let's go to ames and let them 1414 00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:33,510 ask their question and then welcome back 1415 00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:37,030 yeah hi this is Dave Dima right here the 1416 00:58:41,099 --> 00:58:39,040 question I have of you is really relates 1417 00:58:43,170 --> 00:58:41,109 to the ph of the actual environments of 1418 00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:43,180 the biofilms people in this studying the 1419 00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:45,160 Cedars in California found very low 1420 00:58:49,020 --> 00:58:47,890 activity at ph is 11 and so I'm 1421 00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:49,030 wondering you need a little bit of 1422 00:58:53,220 --> 00:58:51,369 dilution of lower ph water for the most 1423 00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:53,230 robust biofilms to develop can you 1424 00:58:57,660 --> 00:58:55,210 comment a little bit about ph of the 1425 00:59:01,950 --> 00:58:57,670 micro environments that you studied the 1426 00:59:04,050 --> 00:59:01,960 genetics and the excitation the only 1427 00:59:06,450 --> 00:59:04,060 thing I really have data on is that even 1428 00:59:07,890 --> 00:59:06,460 that that the rates that I measured in 1429 00:59:09,839 --> 00:59:07,900 these methane production oxidation 1430 00:59:12,210 --> 00:59:09,849 experiments were the same at ph 8 or 1431 00:59:13,530 --> 00:59:12,220 page 9 or page time they vary a little 1432 00:59:14,940 --> 00:59:13,540 bit but I don't look believe the numbers 1433 00:59:17,099 --> 00:59:14,950 because of other errors of all the 1434 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:17,109 experiments so I don't really know I 1435 00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:18,490 don't have any data that actually do 1436 00:59:22,859 --> 00:59:21,040 anything h11 I live it up to 10 and also 1437 00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:22,869 we don't have a lot of really good data 1438 00:59:26,190 --> 00:59:24,160 on the page from our city because we 1439 00:59:27,810 --> 00:59:26,200 really at least on the micro scale if 1440 00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:27,820 relevant to my clubs because we haven't 1441 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:29,440 really put a good microcenter down there 1442 00:59:36,909 --> 00:59:31,330 to see what the pH we're a biofilm is 1443 00:59:41,870 --> 00:59:40,189 okay okay just a reminder if anyone has 1444 00:59:44,449 --> 00:59:41,880 questions to raise your hand in WebEx 1445 00:59:47,839 --> 00:59:44,459 and Mike back to you for a question for 1446 00:59:50,359 --> 00:59:47,849 Catherine right Catherine your talk was 1447 00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:50,369 extremely interesting I was interested 1448 00:59:57,019 --> 00:59:53,729 in why you chose that mass range from 2 1449 01:00:00,649 --> 00:59:57,029 40 to 60 am you assume you have other 1450 01:00:04,249 --> 01:00:00,659 major peak ranges in your overall 1451 01:00:06,709 --> 01:00:04,259 spectrum we are limited to about a 1452 01:00:10,219 --> 01:00:06,719 hundred to about 400 am you just given 1453 01:00:13,279 --> 01:00:10,229 the the mass spectrometer we're using it 1454 01:00:14,599 --> 01:00:13,289 can't go much lower than 100 and after 1455 01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:14,609 about four hundred you don't really see 1456 01:00:19,459 --> 01:00:17,130 very many tolling species anymore so I 1457 01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:19,469 just showed you a arrange that actually 1458 01:00:23,659 --> 01:00:21,359 though the one figure I showed that in 1459 01:00:25,069 --> 01:00:23,669 purple which I can't bring up now 1460 01:00:26,899 --> 01:00:25,079 because I don't seem to have any control 1461 01:00:29,059 --> 01:00:26,909 over these computers but that showed 1462 01:00:31,489 --> 01:00:29,069 more of the actual range we would have 1463 01:00:33,709 --> 01:00:31,499 which is from about a hundred to and for 1464 01:00:35,419 --> 01:00:33,719 it which unfortunately limits a lot of 1465 01:00:37,609 --> 01:00:35,429 these smaller mass things that where you 1466 01:00:39,439 --> 01:00:37,619 might be interested and it also it 1467 01:00:41,059 --> 01:00:39,449 doesn't overlap with the mass 1468 01:00:44,179 --> 01:00:41,069 spectrometer we have on Cassini either 1469 01:00:46,969 --> 01:00:44,189 which only goes up to a hundred mass 1470 01:00:49,009 --> 01:00:46,979 units so hopefully one day day when we 1471 01:00:51,889 --> 01:00:49,019 go back to Titan weekend we can make 1472 01:00:55,069 --> 01:00:51,899 some more comparisons between faster 1473 01:00:58,370 --> 01:00:55,079 ages that actually overlap hello it's 1474 01:01:00,529 --> 01:00:58,380 also curious as I noted that your 1475 01:01:03,259 --> 01:01:00,539 nitrogen heterocycles you had only units 1476 01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:03,269 with one nitrogen six units or six 1477 01:01:07,689 --> 01:01:06,119 nitrogens are seven nitrogens and I was 1478 01:01:10,009 --> 01:01:07,699 wondering what happened to the others 1479 01:01:12,649 --> 01:01:10,019 well it just yeah it seems the ones that 1480 01:01:16,009 --> 01:01:12,659 react kind of tend to be quite a highly 1481 01:01:17,629 --> 01:01:16,019 nitrogenated we do see species with just 1482 01:01:20,629 --> 01:01:17,639 a few nitrogens in them but they just 1483 01:01:22,579 --> 01:01:20,639 don't seem to be as reactive it seems 1484 01:01:24,889 --> 01:01:22,589 like the ones that react more have more 1485 01:01:26,419 --> 01:01:24,899 nitrogen in them but even if you have 1486 01:01:29,259 --> 01:01:26,429 six and seven nitrogen I would have 1487 01:01:31,879 --> 01:01:29,269 thought you might see five and eight 1488 01:01:35,389 --> 01:01:31,889 yeah yeah we do we do I was just showing 1489 01:01:37,669 --> 01:01:35,399 a couple of examples pcs that are 1490 01:01:40,370 --> 01:01:37,679 reacting yeah I just want to share just 1491 01:01:44,089 --> 01:01:40,380 a few of them when you look at the other 1492 01:01:45,799 --> 01:01:44,099 major mass groups and your 100 to 400 1493 01:01:48,739 --> 01:01:45,809 AMU range 1494 01:01:50,959 --> 01:01:48,749 can you use the occurrence of those mass 1495 01:01:54,109 --> 01:01:50,969 groups to identify what the heterocyclic 1496 01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:54,119 structure might be and so on yeah 1497 01:01:57,289 --> 01:01:55,890 unfortunately that's something we've had 1498 01:01:59,239 --> 01:01:57,299 a lot of trouble with that we can tell 1499 01:02:01,189 --> 01:01:59,249 exactly what the molecule is since these 1500 01:02:03,589 --> 01:02:01,199 are such big heavy molecules there's 1501 01:02:05,420 --> 01:02:03,599 thousands of different structures they 1502 01:02:07,370 --> 01:02:05,430 could have and so we were just trying to 1503 01:02:10,009 --> 01:02:07,380 do it by by linking products to 1504 01:02:13,009 --> 01:02:10,019 reactants that was the best best thing 1505 01:02:15,469 --> 01:02:13,019 we could do and unfortunately the the 1506 01:02:17,630 --> 01:02:15,479 results were not very unambiguous so I 1507 01:02:18,979 --> 01:02:17,640 think the jury is still out people have 1508 01:02:20,779 --> 01:02:18,989 been trying to figure out structure 1509 01:02:24,049 --> 01:02:20,789 colin's for a very long time it's been 1510 01:02:27,410 --> 01:02:24,059 very difficult to do thanks we have 1511 01:02:28,969 --> 01:02:27,420 another question here my god let's 1512 01:02:34,219 --> 01:02:28,979 switch to John Peters real quick and 1513 01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:34,229 then we'll come back to you Michael John 1514 01:02:39,529 --> 01:02:37,049 Peters i have just do a quick question 1515 01:02:42,620 --> 01:02:39,539 one for Catherine and the question would 1516 01:02:47,239 --> 01:02:42,630 be related to what you just talked about 1517 01:02:51,289 --> 01:02:47,249 the how much control you have trying to 1518 01:02:53,179 --> 01:02:51,299 make some smaller molecular weight but 1519 01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:53,189 you could try to use to figure out some 1520 01:03:00,829 --> 01:02:58,400 sort of a mechanism of the hydrology uh 1521 01:03:02,419 --> 01:03:00,839 well we don't really need it's not that 1522 01:03:04,519 --> 01:03:02,429 we need smaller molecular weights to 1523 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:04,529 figure out what what's happening the 1524 01:03:09,949 --> 01:03:07,650 heavy ones work just fine 24 by example 1525 01:03:15,469 --> 01:03:09,959 by linking these these products to 1526 01:03:17,689 --> 01:03:15,479 possible reactants so I guess um and 1527 01:03:19,699 --> 01:03:17,699 then you need to see you I guess what's 1528 01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:19,709 your tight I just wonder said if you my 1529 01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:23,130 mom later now we use the number of 1530 01:03:29,779 --> 01:03:26,400 possibility for structural isomers door 1531 01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:29,789 sure you're probably not going to make a 1532 01:03:32,959 --> 01:03:31,410 haze in that case you probably going to 1533 01:03:36,650 --> 01:03:32,969 make a gaseous particle which gets 1534 01:03:38,569 --> 01:03:36,660 sucked out of the of the machine also 1535 01:03:39,799 --> 01:03:38,579 that you're less likely to find those on 1536 01:03:42,529 --> 01:03:39,809 the surface of Titan because they'd be 1537 01:03:44,229 --> 01:03:42,539 in the gas phase in the atmosphere so 1538 01:03:47,839 --> 01:03:44,239 we're more interested in these heavier 1539 01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:47,849 heavier molecules so people have studied 1540 01:03:54,859 --> 01:03:52,170 the gaseous products for for bill you 1541 01:03:58,530 --> 01:03:54,869 mentioned possibility for hydrogen 1542 01:04:00,930 --> 01:03:58,540 activity do you have any information any 1543 01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:00,940 genes anything identified what type of 1544 01:04:08,970 --> 01:04:03,730 hydrogenated and large metal lines and 1545 01:04:10,980 --> 01:04:08,980 could be present I have found some genes 1546 01:04:13,050 --> 01:04:10,990 that have the best blast hits or 1547 01:04:15,690 --> 01:04:13,060 hydrogenases but I haven't looked into 1548 01:04:17,340 --> 01:04:15,700 them yet so much I just getting started 1549 01:04:23,660 --> 01:04:17,350 looking at that data yes we definitely 1550 01:04:30,770 --> 01:04:27,410 thank you thank you okay and Goddard 1551 01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:30,780 back to you what can I go ahead hi this 1552 01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:33,359 is my cali and i guarded a great talk 1553 01:04:38,180 --> 01:04:35,490 for both speakers and I have a question 1554 01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:38,190 for Catherine going back to structures 1555 01:04:43,940 --> 01:04:41,510 again for all your molecular formulas 1556 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:43,950 have you calculated the number of double 1557 01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:45,690 bond equivalents in your suite of 1558 01:04:51,980 --> 01:04:49,920 molecules and if so also on your mass 1559 01:04:54,380 --> 01:04:51,990 spec your tandem mass spec or your msn 1560 01:04:56,030 --> 01:04:54,390 can you look at the fragmentation and 1561 01:05:00,859 --> 01:04:56,040 least get down to if these molecules are 1562 01:05:03,950 --> 01:05:00,869 linear or cyclic molecules are you 1563 01:05:05,809 --> 01:05:03,960 asking about unsaturation or yeah I mean 1564 01:05:09,530 --> 01:05:05,819 how many double bonds because these look 1565 01:05:11,180 --> 01:05:09,540 like probably linea yeah there's 1566 01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:11,190 probably ashley's probably both that's 1567 01:05:13,609 --> 01:05:12,569 the thing there's such a big molecules 1568 01:05:15,289 --> 01:05:13,619 you're probably getting a little bit of 1569 01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:15,299 everything and they do seem to be quite 1570 01:05:22,039 --> 01:05:20,130 yeah unsaturated um unfortunately you 1571 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:22,049 can't do a lot of these standard 1572 01:05:26,299 --> 01:05:24,210 techniques on thoas because there's just 1573 01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:26,309 this big blobby mixture with everything 1574 01:05:30,410 --> 01:05:28,170 in them you can't tell anything from 1575 01:05:32,359 --> 01:05:30,420 anything so which is why we needed this 1576 01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:32,369 really high resolution mass spectrometry 1577 01:05:37,309 --> 01:05:34,730 to at least distinguish the molecules 1578 01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:37,319 the different molecular formula for me 1579 01:05:42,530 --> 01:05:40,079 from each other but um but yeah I mean 1580 01:05:45,230 --> 01:05:42,540 we can tell I guess how unsaturated the 1581 01:05:46,940 --> 01:05:45,240 molecule is and and you know study you 1582 01:05:49,069 --> 01:05:46,950 seem to indicate that there are linear 1583 01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:49,079 portions of yeah these molecules 1584 01:05:54,170 --> 01:05:50,880 although I wouldn't rule out rings 1585 01:05:56,299 --> 01:05:54,180 entirely what can you do I mean you can 1586 01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:56,309 do math fragmentation in your IC are 1587 01:06:00,500 --> 01:05:58,410 correct oh yeah yeah yeah we did that we 1588 01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:00,510 did that yeah and we found fragments of 1589 01:06:05,180 --> 01:06:03,119 like carbon monoxide and water and 1590 01:06:09,620 --> 01:06:05,190 hydrogen cyanide I just look like 1591 01:06:11,210 --> 01:06:09,630 hydrocarbon fact fragmentation because 1592 01:06:13,579 --> 01:06:11,220 if these are ring structures that we 1593 01:06:15,980 --> 01:06:13,589 heart of a fragment right so does it 1594 01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:15,990 look like these are branched molecules 1595 01:06:21,260 --> 01:06:18,000 or when you are it's just too hard to 1596 01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:21,270 tell yeah but we so yeah we saw 1597 01:06:26,359 --> 01:06:23,520 fragments we didn't see a lot of you 1598 01:06:29,150 --> 01:06:26,369 know say you know ch2 or whatever 1599 01:06:30,620 --> 01:06:29,160 fragments it was mostly we were looking 1600 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:30,630 more for the oxygenated fragments 1601 01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:34,290 anyways but yeah yeah I guess I guess we 1602 01:06:38,540 --> 01:06:35,490 didn't really see much Hydra 1603 01:06:42,380 --> 01:06:38,550 arbic fragments we saw water and co and 1604 01:06:47,630 --> 01:06:42,390 hydro cyanide that was about it so thank 1605 01:06:52,100 --> 01:06:47,640 you great talk guys thanks anything else 1606 01:06:55,609 --> 01:06:52,110 from got her no I think that's it wait a 1607 01:06:57,770 --> 01:06:55,619 minute there's one more um avi Mandell 1608 01:07:01,250 --> 01:06:57,780 from Goddard had a question for Billy I 1609 01:07:04,190 --> 01:07:01,260 was wondering as back to the question of 1610 01:07:06,830 --> 01:07:04,200 the possibility of serpentinization or 1611 01:07:08,210 --> 01:07:06,840 biofilms on Mars the conditions 1612 01:07:09,950 --> 01:07:08,220 obviously would be very different than 1613 01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:09,960 the ones at the bottom of the ocean and 1614 01:07:14,780 --> 01:07:12,210 the temperatures would be different ph 1615 01:07:17,090 --> 01:07:14,790 might be similar but especially in terms 1616 01:07:21,650 --> 01:07:17,100 of temperature or pressure how do these 1617 01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:21,660 um processes these biological processes 1618 01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:23,490 specifically not so much the serpent 1619 01:07:28,340 --> 01:07:26,400 anization but the the biofilm pathways 1620 01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:28,350 work under different temperature and 1621 01:07:38,900 --> 01:07:34,290 pressure conditions oh well we don't we 1622 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:38,910 have an idea the short answer especially 1623 01:07:42,740 --> 01:07:40,770 these are novel metabolic pathways in 1624 01:07:44,359 --> 01:07:42,750 the absolute no idea a lot of in all 1625 01:07:45,859 --> 01:07:44,369 other cases of an earth methane 1626 01:07:47,780 --> 01:07:45,869 oxidation actually have two fresh cold 1627 01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:47,790 temperatures like four degrees so I 1628 01:07:50,300 --> 01:07:49,200 don't think temperature would be huge 1629 01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:50,310 issue as long as you know it's about 1630 01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:54,570 reason pressure no idea really these are 1631 01:08:00,950 --> 01:07:56,880 about 800 meters depth so not a huge 1632 01:08:03,230 --> 01:08:00,960 amount of pressure there otherwise I 1633 01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:03,240 don't I think that these things are 1634 01:08:06,890 --> 01:08:05,280 adopted too high pH and high temperature 1635 01:08:08,359 --> 01:08:06,900 because that's where they have to live 1636 01:08:12,650 --> 01:08:08,369 in order to get by agent methane but I 1637 01:08:20,670 --> 01:08:15,510 okay great thanks avi any other 1638 01:08:22,380 --> 01:08:20,680 questions for many sites okay looks like 1639 01:08:25,579 --> 01:08:22,390 we're dwindling I want to thank thank 1640 01:08:28,110 --> 01:08:25,589 everyone for attending and for stain and 1641 01:08:34,349 --> 01:08:28,120 especially thanks Billy and Catherine to 1642 01:08:36,329 --> 01:08:34,359 their talks and healthy reminded tune in 1643 01:08:38,519 --> 01:08:36,339 on November third for Jennifer eigenberg 1644 01:08:41,010 --> 01:08:38,529 and Domhnall Gleeson who will be giving